From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Contributing LLVM.org patches to gud.el Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2015 12:27:48 +0900 Message-ID: <871tlzpxvv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87mw4rxkzv.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87y4oavxcy.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1423452496 1064 80.91.229.3 (9 Feb 2015 03:28:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2015 03:28:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: David Kastrup , eller.helmut@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 09 04:28:15 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YKf1C-0007xq-R3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 09 Feb 2015 04:28:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58656 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YKf1C-0004GI-9z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Feb 2015 22:28:14 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43048) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YKf0z-0004G3-B3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Feb 2015 22:28:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YKf0y-0005rX-Bu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Feb 2015 22:28:01 -0500 Original-Received: from shako.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.161]:38434) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YKf0u-0005qu-30; Sun, 08 Feb 2015 22:27:56 -0500 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by shako.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B05C51C3869; Mon, 9 Feb 2015 12:27:48 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 734F21A2738; Mon, 9 Feb 2015 12:27:48 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta34) "kale" acf1c26e3019 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 130.158.97.161 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:182655 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > > If we try to close down every cooperation with non-GNU free > > software, we are sacrificing our goals for the sake of our > > temples. > > I agree. But is anyone proposing that? Did anyone say it was explicitly proposed? What is feared is that your reflexive opposition to initiatives that you admit you don't understand ("I must study ... don't rush me") merely because they involve LLVM *are* having a chilling effect. And if you can oppose something as innocuous as adding to ELPA *existing* software (which is *already widely distributed*) merely because it involves LLVM, that chilling effect could effectively become a freeze, deterring *many* potential contributors and alienating users who (think they) need the features offered by LLVM that the GNU toolchain doesn't have. The problem (if there really is one) is that gcc and gdb have fallen behind (according to the testimony of a few developers). Why waste time in spiteful attacks on Emacs users and developers (who either won't use lldb on principle, or who can easily add Emacs support locally if they do use it)? Shouldn't you be concentrating on finding strategies for GCC and the rest of the core toolchain to recover their technical and social leadership (not to mention determining if they really have completely lost it)? That's the hard problem, and one that requires your global view of the GNU Project that, say, Stefan does not have. On the other hand, Stefan is quite capable of applying the simple traditional rule of "don't advantage non-GNU software" within Emacs. In-opposition-loyal-ly y'rs,