From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Is Elisp really that slow? Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 22:50:45 +0200 Message-ID: <871s0yqg2i.fsf@telefonica.net> References: <20190514235412.kncazq45szlum2gr@Ergus> <83v9yb92c7.fsf@gnu.org> <878sv7sp3r.fsf@telefonica.net> <83r28z8zl9.fsf@gnu.org> <20190515210924.sijzy6mnpgzkt4gm@Ergus> <83ftpecwu1.fsf@gnu.org> <20190516161408.4dov3dwk5h4yoizn@Ergus> <838sv6cmwt.fsf@gnu.org> <20190516202327.5cgy2s4kppy3ahxa@Ergus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="134291"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu May 16 22:51:20 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hRNLT-000Ymq-Bl for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 16 May 2019 22:51:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35952 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hRNLS-0003m7-EK for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 16 May 2019 16:51:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42615) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hRNLE-0003lo-Mz for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 16 May 2019 16:51:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hRNLC-0001Wu-SU for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 16 May 2019 16:51:04 -0400 Original-Received: from [195.159.176.226] (port=48744 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hRNL8-0001Ow-No for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 16 May 2019 16:51:01 -0400 Original-Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hRNL2-000YCl-MH for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 16 May 2019 22:50:52 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Cancel-Lock: sha1:BJTS4eskr/QFLSvNLlBnBXc+5GA= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 195.159.176.226 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:120447 Archived-At: Can't resist on commenting two points: Ergus writes: > 3) The development is not focused in the first thing that a user needs > when she opens emacs: provide the most comfortable and useful TEXT > EDITOR. For many people this is Notepad. > If emacs as TEXT EDITOR does not convince them (just the first try, > without config, without reading the manual/tutorial/documentation), then > they will not even try any other functionality. Indeed, Emacs has a non-negligible learning curve. Other editors do a lot out of the box in a familiar way, but then you hit the wall. Emacs is lacking in out-of-the-box functionality for modern programming languages but otherwise, as a pure editor, it has no walls. > I think that you are one > of the few in this list who sees the importance if attracting new > users/developers. Unlike vim; emacs is not in the gnu/linux distros, it > is slower and bigger... Are you sure? emacs -Q is instant here, vim grew quite a bit and, anyway, who cares about a few dozen MB of difference when some of the modern contenders use GB of *RAM* to work? > so we need to offer some advantage on the first > try over the others to keep the users. Emacs provides some advantages, but they are not apparent until you experience them. That's a problem for people grown on a culture of instant gratification. Emacs appeals to certain type of users who understand that gains require efforts. The really big problem is that Emacs no longer compete on areas were it used to bring the largest gains. Other editors largely surpassed Emacs' gains while requiring less effort.