From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stephen Berman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:11:32 +0200 Message-ID: <871r8a43jf.fsf@gmx.net> References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <87sg0qb7ay.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3412"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Phil Sainty , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Peter Oliver , 49424@debbugs.gnu.org To: Robert Pluim Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 07 16:13:51 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m18JC-0000dC-Io for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:13:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39026 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m18JB-0006Zh-JG for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 10:13:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52434) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m18HT-000542-H4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 10:12:04 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:41606) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m18HS-0000gQ-EK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 10:12:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m18HS-0008SC-8a for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 10:12:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stephen Berman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 14:12:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 49424 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 49424-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B49424.162566711132479 (code B ref 49424); Wed, 07 Jul 2021 14:12:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 14:11:51 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53152 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m18HG-0008Rm-P6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 10:11:51 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:56087) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m18HE-0008RU-Dk for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 10:11:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1625667094; bh=hb1MBdHMr/mI4gtf6KGJr4OmHMijBX2fFZ3pLtgc4U0=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=N1ANVhP0+swBEiyXeL6gCcmSCIJnS6m1xGAe4UNXjRgS67HuaiTLKHunmMIXDmW30 pNOdSz0dMZzVqmmHQoexzasy6pSaZ0VJQZh/Ow+o4GkOUpVFR5QfyJPNSFnLma78+T pLufwNpiZpbYAdzhyPsrqttuiw4bnIRFFeybcLYs= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from strobelfs ([84.61.246.23]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MTAFb-1lc9BB0ylT-00UXC1; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:11:34 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87sg0qb7ay.fsf@gmail.com> (Robert Pluim's message of "Wed, 07 Jul 2021 15:08:21 +0200") X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:foDaRBWISWl+MD9yeKZBaxePoJVzZu/HCD/v0ime0ZvZN7DHtx4 D/EJJk2qDFKBsy48AitYt/A+y7u39dO097vpgsSqm8dyF1mje+F1ENqfs69S1hNA0KWEnZz 40JnjKn1KX2aMFUjHRBzlR0YWNUELAF6/Xx+cFuPTh3rJENhfJt5xqyeRuJ8Q8FyPhDtuPk 9AwUPgRjW/wcqTv4A1hYQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:huJbMR8tbIg=:xBcxDSAmMlAv8zHdY1Jdur 6Yb0lNq6Ba+oKa9yDjMBuvG6j+sgjThfPoUmNhd/C/w/lwySMrRhy+yRSEi/+60Esp5sq1CVf Mx41lMXVA5y8/xG0oQXGJZfmyLMZVbJPyLm4h8bJWN/EYfbOn8B7w0icMtqqAu78ezQYjCzoo NzHsxerKmv+DaOnoLTdIoGn8vjhyUdDDmpGMvO3jIO0y9ONhJOwUNsAQlW5Ya52+UORV18Uoo xTVsLGapoQozTCvk/M114eseyywrzeIdHfu/GdkcxmJM3wphl8keRPR13G75zwRXvacbJXTIL iQVSnB+803Ml2uM4ezU+mvH8cjX63yMqgCRP3VNPdQwCSrF2pEkZFPEVGomFsWcKzXkLXkLZc sDCp4GpfgDDWv5+ZQO5T5+N8NcgwlaOJuuB0aIFi5+DDmOpnW2Z1xfU9IGDH+xwVJ7KfLIrub FyRlz6H+K1P2YRvbidGtrog3IRc+LxFFIQVStsLHx3csiGgUaR74Ni+ZWVGPVkonqsOTrSiS3 R/n3qhcXcMSXKeoiZgcXVZbypO51b5qyBJpSsDfCaOmS2LmP9zwYLsMcdsQL/znUOfWFp+xni 6tQNtrREg2Tyy//rxYgOI2mrGZUthUocPcLEfy71BjG75O6yKahiDTIjcweTG2OGEMPFe2owM 3H3kAXNqNIRyak/DnWyqT5dTC1Mf00frLmA9BcrqHLE5vuGB8ZG4UdIXHSxy3d6/XiIuB9Saa meN8uEX5NXJQNROA+kY9VELIadJj8SZzkeBJsQVMBlez9izhQ5G3YeVA3Z90HAcqWgO07Ixt X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:209590 Archived-At: On Wed, 07 Jul 2021 15:08:21 +0200 Robert Pluim wrote: >>>>>> On Thu, 08 Jul 2021 00:24:22 +1200, Phil Sainty said: > > Phil> On 2021-07-07 21:17, Robert Pluim wrote: > >> If nothing exists, Emacs will create ~/.emacs.d, and use ~/.emacs = as > >> as the init file. We can change that to use ~/.emacs.d/init.el if = we > >> want, people who already have init files will not be affected. > >> > > Phil> I know of people who have ~/.emacs.d under version control (use= d on > Phil> multiple machines), and on some machines additionally have a ~/= .emacs > Phil> file for config which is local to that particular machine. The= .emacs > Phil> file simply loads the init.el file. > > That=CA=BCs a different branch of the startup logic :-) > > If we change things so that ~/.emacs.d/init.el is used only if there > is no .emacs, they would not be affected. I think this is already > the case, but I may be misremembering > > Phil> There are other ways of achieving the same thing; but I thought= this > Phil> one was quite a neat approach when I heard it. > > Phil> In other words, FYI some people's configs are definitely relian= t on > Phil> the current precedence order. > > Phil> In any case, while the sequence *could* be changed for those two > Phil> files, I don't think there's any notable benefit to doing so? = Even > Phil> ignoring cases like the one above, that change would undoubtedly > Phil> cause some confusion for no good reason. > > I=CA=BCm not proposing changing the sequence, only what happens in the ca= se > where there are no init files at all. It would eliminate the 'why is > emacs creating .emacs.d but then not using it' confusion. One thing I find useful about the current way is that I can use ~/.emacs to carry out tests requiring (or facilitated by having) an init file, without having to move or otherwise disable my actual init file ~/.emacs.d/init.el. That benefit would be lost if the priority was changed (or it would require making ~/.emacs the real init file and using ~/.emacs.d/init.el for testing, which seems less appealing). Steve Berman