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(was Re: Shorthands have landed on master) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2021 11:52:15 +0100 Message-ID: <871r534s2o.fsf@gmail.com> References: <16338bdc2497fc51c6fb6d54ab370bfb@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <831r59kyhf.fsf@gnu.org> <834ka4k15m.fsf@gnu.org> <83y27gijmz.fsf@gnu.org> <8335pmgnjy.fsf@gnu.org> <604da2cb10ac61f2b8b89a02c89056be@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <83a6jtff87.fsf@gnu.org> <5ac7a31cf2959c31c262a3377c736a5a@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <83ilygew7p.fsf@gnu.org> <83fstjdiwl.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30930"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.60 (gnu/linux) Cc: acm@muc.de, Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Phil Sainty Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 02 12:53:09 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mWcdh-0007qU-Ak for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 12:53:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55084 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWcdg-0007WJ-7e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 06:53:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42890) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWccs-0006qG-IJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 06:52:18 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x32c.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::32c]:55853) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWccr-000342-2t; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 06:52:18 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x32c.google.com with SMTP id v127so9007410wme.5; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 03:52:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xgo7JiZWiic4Vq/E2BnYgVMGj3f60ggCoJPrTuwVA0Q=; b=Jcr/XuQO15ojIj5dK5DwupaamUWU9mXay2xhVDe2u8TwkO503tJkjDzhEv848AoAk+ +R86A/G+2kppd1ahtLwnrVQU2Y5irpSE0GSBnYiO9j5WyT86A0IiHEvn3bsX5VxkGZde nPuu614cuBlzJvQVKlMIJXxuWDmBBv5xwHfs464PWUXIOjkx4ZYX6of77AM84Wu/pN0J KLexBIvl0jyKIuecIIi77CtJp/5/OU6wad1Fi0+R8I6wqKyoE26ARVBrz6pyoZdX9oqI WFXo0wGfPDdfGxNarxVZdHmsI66iGG1yDiV+7QZyRkX36gzuTMsU+z76wirhvOCuDBd2 XUyg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xgo7JiZWiic4Vq/E2BnYgVMGj3f60ggCoJPrTuwVA0Q=; b=n3I5z/ah5AquDW9MjJirm/NI3MZmpdDq4YsSPjFQWVTAmK8FpCUidf+nz/jR0THI6K EP/ldzLdEd2nPQJ0j+BUpmWB0JY9xuRZx37SkD+WKW1GnoNznj6h5I6CIYlk7NrTdkCJ GP8VPNcWkSnnqaTtFo7xcR85sQJ+IW4uJsxGfCFliY04izCxGxOl1mijVGaElZz6jrIg tEw6xkl9Fs0AT0/ueYmSaZQOEPq7HqIIHyddOijiAnvWUxLBAhcnSMC5Vlf+5dCACy4S 2tlDixoF4zlVPidYCE6PSxeGA5HVuq3/ViChn4tvftkpx0RD/jNaSmKJtJJHLjCaW/8d fpJg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5320Y/TaxTtyw4MN6EkZ2O/SpWXqIntk+6UBjdc0e3XegB15lTb3 nLHQO9Gt7xKAdnIcqF4Y/EbNB/03fxM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwc8dI9qJwj2sRl+AISe7AdNgmFKe4Fl5Jtve5TNAg+UvMb42gMKKC90LtHrXxu82zzLiDRig== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4e86:: with SMTP id f6mr9304950wmq.52.1633171934457; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 03:52:14 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from krug ([87.196.156.235]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g188sm3678370wmg.46.2021.10.02.03.52.13 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 02 Oct 2021 03:52:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Phil Sainty's message of "Sat, 02 Oct 2021 20:44:55 +1300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::32c; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x32c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:276061 Archived-At: Phil Sainty writes: > On 2021-10-02 19:45, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> There's a huge difference between breaking literal searches for >> symbols by text-searching tools, and breaking basic Emacs commands >> because the name the user sees and types is not known to Emacs. > > But shorthands does *both* of those things. > > The name the user sees is "s-foo". > > The name known to Emacs is "string-library-foo" (or whatever). > > The user types "C-h o s-foo RET" and Emacs says "no match". That's only when the user types that in the minibuffer and doesn't associate in any way to the buffer where you set up that particular shorthand (remember, shorthands aren't global: that's the point). Much like if I type 'import foo as bar' in my Python of JavaScript program and then go search for 'bar' I don't get the results for 'foo'. But (have you seen the animated gif?) if you type 'C-h o' with point ON TOP OF 's-foo', then M-x describe-symbol will be prepolulated with string-library-foo, and need only type RET. The same thing with ElDoc, or M-., or C-M-i when used *in the buffer* that you are looking at. So in with my suggestion you type half the characters and get the correct choice. If however you like to to copy what you see visually from the buffer to the minibuffer, say, to warm your fingers, then a visual strategy similar to the "nameless.el" package you have promoted here can be devised. You'd never never SEE "s-foo" (though it exists in the buffer). I, like others have said, think that is bit chaotic, but not absurd. Then you would be able to type C-h s t r i n g - l i b r a r y - f o o RET Jo=C3=A3o