bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified

bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified

[Ihor Radchenko]

Hi,

I just stumbled upon an unexpected behavior of sxhash-equal.

According to its docstring:

sxhash-equal is a function defined in fns.c.

Documentation
Return an integer hash code for OBJ suitable for equal.

If (equal A B), then (= (sxhash-equal A) (sxhash-equal B)).

So, if A is changed, I expect (sxhash-equal A) to change as well.

Now, consider the following code:

(setq a (avl-tree--create #'org-element--cache-compare))
(avl-tree-enter a '(headline (:begin 2)))
(avl-tree-enter a '(headline (:begin 4)))
(sxhash-equal a) ;; some value
(plist-put (nth 1 (avl-tree-first a)) :begin 10)
(sxhash-equal a) ;; the value does not change!

The result of sxhash-equal does not change despite `a' object being
changed.

Best,
Ihor

In GNU Emacs 28.1.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, cairo version 1.16.0)
 of 2022-05-26 built on localhost
Repository revision: a9f17ccce336ad5d384a6271f205a84141980019
Repository branch: emacs-28
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12101003
System Description: Gentoo Linux

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/home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/org-loaddefs hides /usr/share/emacs/28.1.50/lisp/org/org-loaddefs
/home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/let-alist/let-alist hides /usr/share/emacs/28.1.50/lisp/emacs-lisp/let-alist
/home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/map/map hides /usr/share/emacs/28.1.50/lisp/emacs-lisp/map

Features:
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bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:

> The result of sxhash-equal does not change despite `a' object being
> changed.

Here's a self-contained example:

(require 'org-element)
(setq c (avl-tree--create #'org-element--cache-compare))
(avl-tree-enter c '(headline (:begin 2)))

(setq d (avl-tree--create #'org-element--cache-compare))
(avl-tree-enter d '(headline (:begin 5)))

(equal c d)
nil

(sxhash-equal c)
1776904311275
(sxhash-equal d)
1776904311275

This is due to:

/* Maximum depth up to which to dive into Lisp structures.  */
#define SXHASH_MAX_DEPTH 3

Since this record nests to a depth of 4, and that's where the difference
is.

So I think the doc string overstates things. 

--
If (equal A B), then (= (sxhash-equal A) (sxhash-equal B)).
--

Is not remotely true, but:

--
If (= (sxhash-equal A) (sxhash-equal B)) then it's quite likely that
(equal A B), but the opposite is not true for deeply nested structures.
--



-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> So I think the doc string overstates things. 
>
> --
> If (equal A B), then (= (sxhash-equal A) (sxhash-equal B)).
> --
>
> Is not remotely true, but:
>
> --
> If (= (sxhash-equal A) (sxhash-equal B)) then it's quite likely that
> (equal A B), but the opposite is not true for deeply nested structures.
> --

Sorry, that's all wrong, and what the doc string says is true.  That is,
if they're equal, then the hash is =.

But (= (sxhash-equal A) (sxhash-equal B)) does not imply that
(equal A B), and the doc string should say that explicitly.

It's the manual that's wrong here:

     If the two objects are not ‘equal’, the values returned by
     ‘sxhash-equal’ are usually different, but not always; once in a
     rare while, by luck, you will encounter two distinct-looking
     objects that give the same result from ‘sxhash-equal’.

It's not "once in a rare while" for deeply nested structures.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> It's the manual that's wrong here:

I've now clarified the manual and doc strings here in Emacs 29.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified

[Ihor Radchenko]

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
>
>> It's the manual that's wrong here:
>
> I've now clarified the manual and doc strings here in Emacs 29.

Thanks!

Off topic: Do you know any other way to detect if deeply nested object
has changed (other than creating a deep copy and using equal)?

Best,
Ihor

bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:

> Off topic: Do you know any other way to detect if deeply nested object
> has changed (other than creating a deep copy and using equal)?

Printing the object to a buffer and then using `buffer-hash' should be
OK for most structures, but would be very slow for large objects.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified

[Ihor Radchenko]

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Off topic: Do you know any other way to detect if deeply nested object
>> has changed (other than creating a deep copy and using equal)?
>
> Printing the object to a buffer and then using `buffer-hash' should be
> OK for most structures, but would be very slow for large objects.

This is exactly the problem at hand. I was hoping to find a fast way to
detect if a large deeply nested object is changed. If not, do not print
that object for the purpose of saving it to disk cache. Printing can
take up to 2-3 seconds in some cases.

Best,
Ihor

bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:

> This is exactly the problem at hand. I was hoping to find a fast way to
> detect if a large deeply nested object is changed. If not, do not print
> that object for the purpose of saving it to disk cache. Printing can
> take up to 2-3 seconds in some cases.

I think you basically have to restructure the code to add a guard to
whatever's updating the structure to see whether it's "dirty" or not.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified

[Ihor Radchenko]

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> This is exactly the problem at hand. I was hoping to find a fast way to
>> detect if a large deeply nested object is changed. If not, do not print
>> that object for the purpose of saving it to disk cache. Printing can
>> take up to 2-3 seconds in some cases.
>
> I think you basically have to restructure the code to add a guard to
> whatever's updating the structure to see whether it's "dirty" or not.

This is only possible when I have access to the code making changes to
the object.

The original idea was to detect changed objects in most generic way, as
a part of persistent storage library. Oh well.

Best,
Ihor

bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:

> The original idea was to detect changed objects in most generic way, as
> a part of persistent storage library. Oh well.

We could make SXHASH_MAX_DEPTH into a defvar -- or pass the depth in to
`sxhash-equal'.  However, the hash it's computing is geared towards hash
tables, so collisions are OK -- it's not a cryptographic hash, so I'm
not sure it would fit your use case anyway.  I.e., our sxhash_combine is
very simple.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified

[Ihor Radchenko]

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> The original idea was to detect changed objects in most generic way, as
>> a part of persistent storage library. Oh well.
>
> We could make SXHASH_MAX_DEPTH into a defvar -- or pass the depth in to
> `sxhash-equal'.  However, the hash it's computing is geared towards hash
> tables, so collisions are OK -- it's not a cryptographic hash, so I'm
> not sure it would fit your use case anyway.  I.e., our sxhash_combine is
> very simple.

Well. In my scenario, the object structure creates so bad case that
_all_ the hashes for _all possible_ avl-tree structures collide
(actually, I use plists containing avl-tree structures).

As for the hash tables and collisions. Are you sure that collisions are
OK? Consider the following example:

(setq a (avl-tree--create #'org-element--cache-compare))
(avl-tree-enter a '(headline (:begin 2)))
(setq tbl (make-hash-table :test #'equal))
(puthash a 'value tbl)
(gethash a tbl)
(plist-put (nth 1 (avl-tree-first a)) :begin 10)
(gethash a tbl) ;; the value does not change!

Best,
Ihor

bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:

> As for the hash tables and collisions. Are you sure that collisions are
> OK? Consider the following example:
>
> (setq a (avl-tree--create #'org-element--cache-compare))
> (avl-tree-enter a '(headline (:begin 2)))
> (setq tbl (make-hash-table :test #'equal))
> (puthash a 'value tbl)
> (gethash a tbl)
> (plist-put (nth 1 (avl-tree-first a)) :begin 10)
> (gethash a tbl) ;; the value does not change!

That has nothing to do with collisions -- you're free to alter a key as
much as you want.  It's just a normal Lisp object.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified

[Ihor Radchenko]

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

>> (setq a (avl-tree--create #'org-element--cache-compare))
>> (avl-tree-enter a '(headline (:begin 2)))
>> (setq tbl (make-hash-table :test #'equal))
>> (puthash a 'value tbl)
>> (gethash a tbl)
>> (plist-put (nth 1 (avl-tree-first a)) :begin 10)
>> (gethash a tbl) ;; the value does not change!
>
> That has nothing to do with collisions -- you're free to alter a key as
> much as you want.  It's just a normal Lisp object.

You are indeed right. Thanks for the clarification!

Best,
Ihor