Howto fix: package autoload is deprecated

Howto fix: package autoload is deprecated

[T.V Raman]

I generate autoloads for emacspeak --- and have used (require
'autoload) for a long time, and failed to notice that package autoload
has been deprecated for a while.

What's the new shiny way of doing this, a code pointer would help.
-- 

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮

--

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮

Re: Howto fix: package autoload is deprecated

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com>
> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 19:38:17 -0700
> 
> I generate autoloads for emacspeak --- and have used (require
> 'autoload) for a long time, and failed to notice that package autoload
> has been deprecated for a while.
> 
> What's the new shiny way of doing this, a code pointer would help.

From NEWS:

  ** The autoload.el library is now obsolete.
  It is superseded by the loaddefs-gen.el library.

Re: Howto fix: package autoload is deprecated

[T.V Raman]

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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:


Thanks for the loaddefs-gen pointer, worked like a charm.

I note that the NEWS file marks that entry with a "---" to indicate no
manual update is needed; but we should minimally mark the info node on
package 'autoload obsolete, and add a short line somewhere on using or
at least mentioning loaddefs-generate 

>> From: "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com>
>> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 19:38:17 -0700
>> 
>> I generate autoloads for emacspeak --- and have used (require
>> 'autoload) for a long time, and failed to notice that package autoload
>> has been deprecated for a while.
>> 
>> What's the new shiny way of doing this, a code pointer would help.
>
> From NEWS:
>
>   ** The autoload.el library is now obsolete.
>   It is superseded by the loaddefs-gen.el library.

-- 

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
7©4 Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  •0Ü8

Re: Howto fix: package autoload is deprecated

[Stefan Monnier]

T.V Raman [2022-09-14 19:02:42] wrote:
> I note that the NEWS file marks that entry with a "---" to indicate no
> manual update is needed; but we should minimally mark the info node on
> package 'autoload obsolete, and add a short line somewhere on using or
> at least mentioning loaddefs-generate 

FWIW, I think the obsoletion(?) of `autoload.el` is a bit rash:
it breaks all existing packages which just called the (formerly)
autoloaded entry points without first doing (require 'autoload).
[ `elpa-admin.el` was luckily spared because it does not call autoload
  functions directly but calls `package-generate-autoloads` instead.  ]

I wish we could actually throw out most of `autoload.el` altogether by
providing "thin" wrappers for the former entry points but using the new
engine under the hood.


        Stefan

Re: Howto fix: package autoload is deprecated

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> FWIW, I think the obsoletion(?) of `autoload.el` is a bit rash:
> it breaks all existing packages which just called the (formerly)
> autoloaded entry points without first doing (require 'autoload).

Unless I missed something, all the previously ###;;;autoloaded entry
points should still be available without doing that (see subr.el).

Re: Howto fix: package autoload is deprecated

[Stefan Monnier]

>> FWIW, I think the obsoletion(?) of `autoload.el` is a bit rash:
>> it breaks all existing packages which just called the (formerly)
>> autoloaded entry points without first doing (require 'autoload).
> Unless I missed something, all the previously ###;;;autoloaded entry
> points should still be available without doing that (see subr.el).

Hmm... indeed.  Sorry 'bout the noise.
Tho I wonder then if Raman's code could work "unchanged" by just
removing the explicit (require 'autoload).


        Stefan

Re: Howto fix: package autoload is deprecated

[T.V Raman]

for now, no, because if you remove the (require 'autoload), it gets
pulled in by the hack in subr.el.

My issue was that I 1. had missed the obsoletion, and 2. On my new
laptop, (new as from May) building and installing emacs from HEAD
wasn't replacing the info manuals because of compressed vs
uncompressed install, go figure!

So as Eli suspected I was reading an older manual. 

Makes me wonder: when Emacs Info pages are displayed, should the
version info of that info manual be part of the Header line?

Stefan Monnier writes:
 > >> FWIW, I think the obsoletion(?) of `autoload.el` is a bit rash:
 > >> it breaks all existing packages which just called the (formerly)
 > >> autoloaded entry points without first doing (require 'autoload).
 > > Unless I missed something, all the previously ###;;;autoloaded entry
 > > points should still be available without doing that (see subr.el).
 > 
 > Hmm... indeed.  Sorry 'bout the noise.
 > Tho I wonder then if Raman's code could work "unchanged" by just
 > removing the explicit (require 'autoload).
 > 
 > 
 >         Stefan

-- 

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮

--

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮

Re: Howto fix: package autoload is deprecated

[T.V Raman]

Agreed, though I've myself now moved past the problem for emacspeak.

The thing that made this particularly hard to debug re the obsoletion
is that the new solution is hard to discover, and even  if you remove
(require 'autoload) from your own code, subr.el still pulls that
package in --- and that bit in my opinion is a giant kluge that  gives
 you the worst of all possible worlds.Stefan Monnier writes:
 > T.V Raman [2022-09-14 19:02:42] wrote:
 > > I note that the NEWS file marks that entry with a "---" to indicate no
 > > manual update is needed; but we should minimally mark the info node on
 > > package 'autoload obsolete, and add a short line somewhere on using or
 > > at least mentioning loaddefs-generate 
 > 
 > FWIW, I think the obsoletion(?) of `autoload.el` is a bit rash:
 > it breaks all existing packages which just called the (formerly)
 > autoloaded entry points without first doing (require 'autoload).
 > [ `elpa-admin.el` was luckily spared because it does not call autoload
 >   functions directly but calls `package-generate-autoloads` instead.  ]
 > 
 > I wish we could actually throw out most of `autoload.el` altogether by
 > providing "thin" wrappers for the former entry points but using the new
 > engine under the hood.
 > 
 > 
 >         Stefan

-- 

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮

--

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮

Re: Howto fix: package autoload is deprecated

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 19:02:42 -0700
> 
> Thanks for the loaddefs-gen pointer, worked like a charm.
> 
> I note that the NEWS file marks that entry with a "---" to indicate no
> manual update is needed; but we should minimally mark the info node on
> package 'autoload obsolete, and add a short line somewhere on using or
> at least mentioning loaddefs-generate 

What do you mean by "the info node on package 'autoload"?  I find no
such node in the manual on the master branch.  And loaddefs-generate
is already documented there.  Are you perhaps reading an old version
of the ELisp manual, not the one from the master branch?