From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Stability of core packages (was: Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 21:40:35 +0200 Message-ID: <871qkfirbl.fsf@web.de> References: <87a5zj2vfo.fsf@gmail.com> <83sfd2g2ek.fsf@gnu.org> <875y9yfxrr.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1muefks.fsf@gmail.com> <834jpifizy.fsf@gnu.org> <83y1mue1qi.fsf@gnu.org> <83sfd2e01f.fsf@gnu.org> <1a5e5837-513b-84d8-3260-cdbf42b71267@gutov.dev> <83sfcz9rf2.fsf@gnu.org> <09a49ab9-ac72-36a9-3e68-9c633710eba7@gutov.dev> <83r0sh8i1q.fsf@gnu.org> <35638c9d-e13f-fad8-5f95-ea03d65d4aa2@gmail.com> <87a5z3izst.fsf@web.de> <83v8hr7qk9.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12298"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.10.0; emacs 29.0.60 Cc: joaotavora@gmail.com, jporterbugs@gmail.com, dmitry@gutov.dev, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 19 21:51:42 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ppDq9-0002w1-Eg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 21:51:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppDpq-00017t-8d; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 15:51:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppDpo-00017k-Kc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 15:51:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.web.de ([217.72.192.78]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppDpm-0008W4-HE; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 15:51:20 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1681933871; i=arne_bab@web.de; bh=c2FfdkNBCdCuxkPuyeyOlEN041U9MakGInJ4mFujAAE=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:References:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-reply-to; b=wKCLGikn6k6Ub1Ox1hKjA9m331LTCRjUIETDgUwhnlC9QDkWo+RoKWwWpv5AdJWtp W3+s/gq3TMcrajSGVmqQnWRt9LrzF3KNFPJyWSheX9iXgcrug2Oho/VQFmfV+FbJtz omglH3h8vYPdiNGOZKtUB+9qZGVjkA4b8/m0RY0oYOkM7sL8NcOT/X6cP/c0465RQW G7DrLXJbPx0z6bsCOI44mCzrMPgpUFL+Cy0IAdgLaEXWQchQftMo/z0bJ61S0Tnv6T 5hp16D9Ty3XT0RerObhvO0SUPDgHVqPbXk+/akFgpg6DviKv3suvdTfCGEvC5EawQV KkGr8il3IfpeQ== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Original-Received: from fluss ([84.165.25.222]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb105 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1Mmhjw-1qZ2EL1gvu-00kBm6; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 21:51:11 +0200 In-reply-to: <83v8hr7qk9.fsf@gnu.org> X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:Zwn8vgPRJrkAq07YNjENz8/IEtF40IFI28PHkanSI5r1+D6msRm ywTb050G30qnt6DgSK3R6OsHNE62muiifiQar2zRkoJNAHWQQvQ3lbZpcbiY8kpYeiN5Mc7 EiIgb1wY0dXxuO1ENGgijgq2Wn06xoAq2PEE5KmVQbxoBwi7jsshmHnw45O8C+3nz3xMMik ZZHeXezPzlNeWGA0mohtA== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:kOiVM3PDSu4=;TL/thATJFeSESyu8SO4h9uoPyF5 /82gs0I1JgWRePf65LdSdljJ5vE9+QGbUe3FP521Q534LsxULBL9g94yPw76Uvg/IEB+DHmGC 1DWLNfTHtxgefjlDeaPp93KXMylvWV5uvgx72XWu7p7giAv3jbM/2Aw/hmN37eeU/jpgMghgJ SDKWHLTlu34BZLLEzq9e1n9+PqhMA1eMkKSEZg5mmGK5Vt4xhwHzVvkZdBC7EXs87V+ppRUHB umVRNlMRfOoqE88uXt6zoH6BnM4MLVCBlr+zC2Acmav5gxKJhkOToq4qCRJ/7Nq6BhWJc2r4X rwTs8A5sHL9RNziHCqkJjHrBYGyrKF1j8t6sDlVyNN+w1VBwdze1UzgvQypVGRZCs7C6EBMA+ Bawiohhhb4xOmpQi6sQlly7XM6Ff/DAd5B1chuWyG3kkCLF104cdm35XTa9zmYEzzLXg8wA91 8dFrnVfHXFIwJGJ6/uZGWHTND5Xl5+ppvf+RJOZkcDc+EPrH3NNOwBCRo4DpJzUN00JPeBC5l 6lMMlRMcuxwrHjMFwE1aE55YxV5mQtciZWkYs3YrweEC8MVC33pkJ3nBHw6YuMt4lmqwUkbwp tUoP870WeCmXS+dcedTFz/v0Db7LynumJgfDFJ9J3iTep3+/DdXLXtAd0SkyZntgf9erwVbU/ JX0g3ZOo1/sC803B+t18P4P+30SXkEgGE4wS1LR4rUTLScJEsrLyo+wmh5twz7pKq+y9E/SL4 IImypZkq7W628DKIzH7Wojwe4iujJ/cH8LuRIdnvGC98sVua699eZGSH8je1YTk38sGuSUHy Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.72.192.78; envelope-from=arne_bab@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:305464 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eli Zaretskii writes: >> But there are too many different tasks to actually check them all every >> time I update. And I usually don=E2=80=99t choose to do an Emacs update,= but >> just update when my distro ships the new version. > > I don't think anyone will argue that breaking changes are good. I=E2=80=99ve seen that more than once, but I=E2=80=99m glad that that=E2=80= =99s not on the table :-) > Specifically, users of Emacs 28 and older, who had Eglot installed, > and expect Eglot to be automatically updated upon Emacs startup > whenever a new Eglot version is available, will now have their > expectations broken after they upgrade to Emacs 29, because Eglot is > now a built-in package, and package.el won't by default upgrade a > built-in package. =E2=80=A6 > So there's a dilemma here: which of the two groups of users to break? Not updating eglot until the next Emacs release shouldn=E2=80=99t cause bre= akage in any other packages, right? Except if a more modern eglot is a dependency of a non-built-in package. I think that=E2=80=99s what I would prefer: I would treat being pulled into Emacs as a stabilization step that switches the package from being on the latest version to being at the version in Emacs or the minimum version required by dependencies =E2=80=94 if that version is higher than t= he version in Emacs. Basically minimize the distance from the Emacs release. But that=E2=80=99s just my position =E2=80=94 thank you for working to find= a solution that works best for most! > And that is the real issue here, at least from my POV. Thank you for the clarification! I had thought that I had read enough of the thread to understand the context =E2=80=A6 thank you for pulling me in nonetheless! Best wishes, Arne =2D-=20 Unpolitisch sein hei=C3=9Ft politisch sein, ohne es zu merken. draketo.de --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJEBAEBCAAuFiEE801qEjXQSQPNItXAE++NRSQDw+sFAmRARi4QHGFybmVfYmFi QHdlYi5kZQAKCRAT741FJAPD6/NAEACBUXNcGrg6kF92hp0aw4nvAz5VuEXbw3rf BlpTvJRPSlLg1utbbL2uVCCb1zX8zeZzfPjIXahkX1O2VarImlLaK13tmmdPiaO0 xbgIyCcSvCciJngyltRdxSN0WvDPp2Al5hBglkHppZxqN38hTfMnIo5C+Lgy0lzO GWTjhO9WFN8rNqMpBngi3HmfR6CyGEX5W5I6zf5K0nf5+TwkDJkxBLOsLWUiaBmN XBb7Bu2g9qD2+aF9STnMQeux7KvaPyr7fz+4aCa76U9p+sJmTAbRy2vRsxQyO6Nw lBbu6sblQa11BiE2LnidRxai+oR3t5qgSQOZDnGadpHgT1NHoXlvmI6SSd0fC0hd ITNWC/AqlXTI83OkeQ1mi8ZYuweoxwpuGhkzOdWSO0I7HQMtlB6DAd0lbJjeH1dR 9tAszA9i0cJp9xTkEymejdtcERwJgj4PfsefwpkMkkX8p5ZvqZYM79jqqSHoXVvg WBiS4dO6XiMNEDC+Ttm73Ogh+w1fLlNuPZQGN3tV846+t2TrddfqKJaM7JKDZH22 9hhavelkNjSzbWxnTalIy1rIzmWwla/dQWVw3wJ7QHqhpG3WrVa4Pb0oL5vHZ0zU bnrdQeOxpg8+Kg9gmtGHcXXBUHTg/cdAYd7+LZiZnouBMi6GehyV21zm7rW+22fQ tGSTqkRNOojEBAEBCAAuFiEE3Si95tmHXKvOSosd3M8NswvBBUgFAmRARi4QHGFy bmVfYmFiQHdlYi5kZQAKCRDczw2zC8EFSD3vBACDn8Q9FgGplAPut7fGPIqjVOfj bZx1pjd4EE0fzKspmdTWoRNgfFbL6YR1S2pwwNJdqAip2vpMezyWSItVL4dTpuSb JuSv8ooGADGxTAyidfqSKc0+yuKB4wfR1HKhMraXuK5oxfC+x48bQobHeW3f3E09 UtkaKjKC5TnenORdJA== =Smf+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--