From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Shrinking the C core Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2023 20:15:54 +0200 Message-ID: <871qfp655x.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: <20230809094655.793FC18A4654@snark.thyrsus.com> <87edk3gbh3.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87jztvnuyb.fsf@localhost> <875y5bdutt.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87y1i6e1uh.fsf@localhost> <874jkub40o.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87jztqdw2l.fsf@localhost> <87msym9i4r.fsf@dataswamp.org> <877cpp914t.fsf@localhost> <871qfx8yfq.fsf@localhost> <87sf8d7hj0.fsf@localhost> <838ra5wn8r.fsf@gnu.org> <878ra179fp.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83r0nqmk12.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4400"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:a8aX/657i4192cQCael4Spmc+uY= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 26 20:23:35 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qZxwd-0000sb-Lj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 20:23:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qZxw0-0000hu-Og; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 14:22:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qZxpV-0008Nq-OP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 14:16:13 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qZxpT-0007Ke-3X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 14:16:13 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qZxpQ-00020V-2Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 20:16:08 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 26 Aug 2023 14:22:55 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309270 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Most Emacs commands' speed is limited in practice by the >> speed of the user's typing. The few exceptions, in my >> usage, are limited by the speed of searching large buffers. > > [...] For these and other reasons, an Emacs with > native-compilation feels tangibly faster than Emacs without > native-compilation Absolutely, huge number-crunching computing will be faster, but also everyday life inside Emacs, you notice this immediately. So people should not be afraid, they should be encouraged to try it. If the popup buffers with tons of warnings and one-the-fly nature of the compilation itself a factor that might scare people away, we should work against that as well. For example all [M]ELPA package maintainer should be encouraged to clean their code and get away the warnings, to not take them lightly. And maybe add an option to not have native compilation popup buffers at all, so it would be completely silent. > and IMO that justifies the known downsides: the fact that > native compilation is slower than byte compilation But stuff that happens only once doesn't have to be fast. And one can think of a scenario where all Elisp is natively compiled once and for all, like I did here: https://dataswamp.org/~incal/emacs-init/native.el This will populate the eln-cache with some stuff that in practice is never used for a particular user, since no single individual uses all of Emacs, but my record is still just 1549 files so searching the cache should still be fast. > and the compiled files are non-portable The files are not but the feature is so unless one runs some really exotic processor one can still grab the Elisp files and native compile them on the local machine. BTW aren't the eln files portable for use within the same architecture family? But even if they are, I don't see why anyone would use (share) them like that when native compilation is so easy to do locally. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal