From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Reply to list [was: Different key maps in different dired buffers] Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2016 03:40:08 +0200 Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Message-ID: <86zir1n347.fsf@student.uu.se> References: <4159df5c-3545-4c5a-829f-abc80f620813@default> <57473688.4020503@gmail.com> <20160527070959.GB27615@tuxteam.de> <83mvnc0vze.fsf@gnu.org> <83pos7z6gv.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1465004737 13897 80.91.229.3 (4 Jun 2016 01:45:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 01:45:37 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 04 03:45:30 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1b90eX-000382-N5 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 04 Jun 2016 03:45:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58999 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b90eX-0000Hf-2A for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 03 Jun 2016 21:45:29 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 140 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: EoOtCC1fCYcttx6jjhWUlA.user.gioia.aioe.org Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:xqGjKrrL17g04WYw8C1wW1sYvUc= Mail-Copies-To: never X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:217982 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:110290 Archived-At: Bob Proulx writes: > Pragmatically the bug reporting lists can't > be reply only on the mailing lists. > Because we don't require bug reporters to > subscribe before posting bug reports. > We don't require bug reporters to subscribe > first. Doing so would be a burden and would > alienate bug reporters. That's right! > Because the bug reporting lists are open and > need to include the original sender this > carries over to other lists too. Like this > help-gnu-emacs list. Should it require people > to be subscribed? That is more of a gray area > since it isn't a bug reporting list. > But people writing for help are almost the > same as bug reporters. So by default help > lists get the same treatment as bug lists. There should not be any such requirements - just the web form "input your data here, verify that you are human, wait for a mail, input the code and come back" all that makes my stomach turn. Unless I'm desperate for help (like with the GMT - Generic Mapping Tools - they only have a forum) I turn around when I'm asked to do that, rather than to do it. > But what about discussion lists? At some > point maintainers of individual projects may > state a policy for their own project. And so > there isn't a 100% uniform policy across all > of the mailing lists. > Some lists.{non,}gnu.org lists are one way > and some another way. People shouldn't be so petty about their projects! Projects are great fun and sometimes useful but they shouldn't be a secluded brotherhood "we know what it is about" than shuns the darkness of the night... > I would hate to annoy them with a second > copy. It is not that annoying. With Gnus and mail splitting, you can get away with the extra mail like this: (setq nnmail-split-methods '( ("mail.ml-ooa" "\\(To\\|Cc\\):.*\\(emacs-w3m@namazu.org\\|help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org\\|gnuplot-info@lists.sourceforge.net\\)") ("mail.misc" "")) ) Even if you don't, it isn't terrible. The important think is to send the psychological message virtually immediately, yes there are people, they may not agree, they may be imperfect in many ways including solving your issue, but keep working, keep working with them, and the problem will be solved with time and effort. > Additionally there is the problem of the News > to Email gateway. (Which coincidentally I see > had a backlog of old messages push through > today.) Many people read on the News side of > things and post there. I think for them it > would be quite surprising to get an email > copy of something they posted by news. > However this is a mailing list and not a news > group. People reading the news group have to > expect that they are still participating in > a mailing list. Some people may say, the best way to do mailing lists is with Gnus and Gmane, which turns them into newsgroups in all essence. And those people might have good cause to say that... >>> I don't understand why people think >>> "recipient might get two copies" is worse >>> than "recipient might get no copies". >>> Especially when the former issue is >>> trivially avoided by Mailman or MUA >>> duplication suppression. >>> >> I fully agree. > > I completely disagree. > > Mailman duplication suppression is mostly > non-functional for this issue. What about my solution - does that work? (OK, not everyone uses Gnus.) Well, obviously we should try to make it as pleasant as possible for our users. On the other hand, to get two copies of help isn't a problem! If people hit the ceiling in frustration because of that perhaps they should take a leave from computers and do Buddhism for half a year, and then come back... > And so we have an imperfect system that we > simply have to learn to live with regardless > of the problems. Even with the problems it is > much better than a web forum. Indeed. Tho there can be a gateway in between that as well - the future of computing is interface-agnostic! Why not have the exact same material accessible as a mailing list, as a Gmane newsgroup, as a Usenet newsgroup, as a web forum, and as a Facebook whatever-they-call-it! This isn't hard to do, well, not impossible anyway. (With Facebook politics may be a problem.) Recall there is already gnu-emacs-help (the listbot), there is gmane.emacs.help (Gmane), and there is gnu.emacs.help (Usenet). Is there a "GNU web forum" software? On Usenet, there is rec.bicycles.tech - and here is the same thing, as a web forum! http://www.cyclebanter.com/forumdisplay.php?f=8 -- underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic - so far: 46 Blogomatic articles -