Is anybody using "NotMuch" as an email client?

Is anybody using "NotMuch" as an email client?

[Dr Rainer Woitok]

Greetings,

currently I'm using "Rmail" for processing my email.   It works,  but it
also is rather spartan sometimes.  Somewhere someone mentioned "NotMuch"
but from searching the Internet, I'm not yet sure it is what I want.

Currently I'm using the traditional approach of storing related mails in
"mbox" type mail files.   Rather infrequently I have the need of search-
ing all mails in an mbox for a string or regular expression.  Apart from
reading and writing mails  I need to reply,  to forward and occasionally
to resend mails.   As for downloading attachments, it's mostly enough to
download them one by one  but sometimes I want to download them all in a
single sweep.

Is anybody out there  using  "NotMuch"  as their daily  email driver and
willing to share their experience?

Sincerely,
  Rainer

Re: Is anybody using "NotMuch" as an email client?

[Jon Fineman]

Dr Rainer Woitok <rainer.woitok@gmail.com> writes:

> Greetings,
>
> currently I'm using "Rmail" for processing my email.   It works,  but it
> also is rather spartan sometimes.  Somewhere someone mentioned "NotMuch"
> but from searching the Internet, I'm not yet sure it is what I want.
>
> Currently I'm using the traditional approach of storing related mails in
> "mbox" type mail files.   Rather infrequently I have the need of search-
> ing all mails in an mbox for a string or regular expression.  Apart from
> reading and writing mails  I need to reply,  to forward and occasionally
> to resend mails.   As for downloading attachments, it's mostly enough to
> download them one by one  but sometimes I want to download them all in a
> single sweep.
>
> Is anybody out there  using  "NotMuch"  as their daily  email driver and
> willing to share their experience?
>
> Sincerely,
>   Rainer


I use it. It has some quirks, but notmuch coupled with the emacs gui
notmuch is really a full fledged email client. It doesn't create HTML
emails, but can view them via eww or w3m. If I have a complicated
email I will view it in firefox. But I try to avoid those.

I found to make it easy and seamless I needed quite a few settings,
elisp functions and shell scripts. By design it doesn't delete emails
and is tag and thread based. I created some scripts modeled after
their suggestions on their site to tag and then delete emails on my
own.

I think the ability to search and actually find an email is unparalleled
in today's clients.

I like their use of the Maildir format for storing emails. One file
per email. But you need offlineimap or mbsync to sync email up and
down. Those scripts alone can be tedious to set up. The side benefit
is it gives me a backup of my mail.

You might also want to ask on their email list at:
<notmuch@notmuchmail.org>

Their web site is at <https://notmuchmail.org/>

Re: Is anybody using "NotMuch" as an email client?

[Joel Reicher]

Jon Fineman <jon@fineman.me> writes:

> I think the ability to search and actually find an email is 
> unparalleled in today's clients.
>
> I like their use of the Maildir format for storing emails. One 
> file per email.

In these respects it sounds a lot like MH.

How does it differ from or improve on something like nmh with 
mh-e?

Just curious.

Thanks and regards,

        - Joel

Re: Is anybody using "NotMuch" as an email client?

[Dr Rainer Woitok]

Jon,

On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 09:35:50 -0400 you wrote:

> I use it.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience :-)

> ...
> I like their use of the Maildir format for storing emails. One file
> per email.

While I agree in theory that the "MailDir" format is superior, this pro-
bably would become the main show-stopper: I have zillions of "mbox" type
mail folders  spread all over my  home directory  which I'd have to con-
vert.  Well, I think a simple "gawk" script could do the trick, but this
would have to be done in addition to the migration proper.   By the way,
how does "NotMuch" choose the file names?

>            But you need offlineimap or mbsync to sync email up and
> down.

Is "POP3" supported?   Decades ago I opted for "POP3" because "IMAP" (at
least then) was unable to do things the way I wanted them done.  I'm not
even sure I could still find  the reasons for this decision  in my notes
or documentation ... :-/

Sincerely,
  Rainer

Re: Is anybody using "NotMuch" as an email client?

[Jon Fineman]

Dr Rainer Woitok <rainer.woitok@gmail.com> writes:

> Jon,
>
> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 09:35:50 -0400 you wrote:
>
>> I use it.
>
> Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience :-)
>
>> ...
>> I like their use of the Maildir format for storing emails. One file
>> per email.
>
> While I agree in theory that the "MailDir" format is superior, this pro-
> bably would become the main show-stopper: I have zillions of "mbox" type
> mail folders  spread all over my  home directory  which I'd have to con-
> vert.  Well, I think a simple "gawk" script could do the trick, but this
> would have to be done in addition to the migration proper.   By the way,
> how does "NotMuch" choose the file names?
>

I found this explanation of Maildir. My understanding is some clients
follow this more closely than others. If I remember correctly I have
seen some tools to convert Mbox to Maildir and the other way.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maildir>



>>            But you need offlineimap or mbsync to sync email up and
>> down.
>
> Is "POP3" supported?   Decades ago I opted for "POP3" because "IMAP" (at
> least then) was unable to do things the way I wanted them done.  I'm not
> even sure I could still find  the reasons for this decision  in my notes
> or documentation ... :-/

Actually from what I see both offlineimap and mbsync do not support
pop.


>
> Sincerely,
>   Rainer

Re: Is anybody using "NotMuch" as an email client?

[Teemu Likonen]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2050 bytes --]

* 2024-07-12 11:23:49+0200, Rainer Woitok wrote:

> While I agree in theory that the "MailDir" format is superior, this pro-
> bably would become the main show-stopper: I have zillions of "mbox" type
> mail folders  spread all over my  home directory  which I'd have to con-
> vert.  Well, I think a simple "gawk" script could do the trick, but this
> would have to be done in addition to the migration proper.

There is a tool for splitting mbox files: "formail -s".

> By the way, how does "NotMuch" choose the file names?

Notmuch doesn't name files at all. User just configures a directory
where the mails files or sub directories are. Notmuch doesn't
necessarily touch them other than opening and reading. Exception is
moving files between maildir subdirectories: usually from tmp/ to cur/
directory. Notmuch can also synchronize some maildir flags to Notmuch
tags: new, replied, flagged and probably some others.

> Is "POP3" supported?   Decades ago I opted for "POP3" because "IMAP" (at
> least then) was unable to do things the way I wanted them done. 

Notmuch doesn't do much: it doesn't do any internet protocols. It's
basically just a database and a command-line tool for that. Other tools
are needed, like "fetchmail" or some IMAP synchronizing tool for getting
the mail, Notmuch for indexing and searching the mail files, Notmuch
Emacs (or other client) for user interface and mail sending (SMTP).

Notmuch Emacs client can be configured to join the parts together but
user must write a "hook script" for getting the mail and putting the
files in the right place. The script could handle spam filtering, for
example. Mine uses "bogofilter" for spam and does some mail tagging like
adding "mute" or "follow" tags for mail I don't want or want to see.

So, from Notmuch and Notmuch Emacs user gets really nice tools for
building a custom mail system but they need other parts as well.

-- 
/// Teemu Likonen - .-.. https://www.iki.fi/tlikonen/
// OpenPGP: 6965F03973F0D4CA22B9410F0F2CAE0E07608462

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 251 bytes --]

Re: Is anybody using "NotMuch" as an email client?

[Teemu Likonen]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 429 bytes --]

* 2024-07-12 13:08:56+0300, Teemu Likonen wrote:

> Exception is moving files between maildir subdirectories: usually from
> tmp/ to cur/ directory.

That should be "from 'new' to 'cur'". In maildir format new message
files are in subdirectory "new" and a file is moved to "cur" when the
message is read.

-- 
/// Teemu Likonen - .-.. https://www.iki.fi/tlikonen/
// OpenPGP: 6965F03973F0D4CA22B9410F0F2CAE0E07608462

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 251 bytes --]

Re: Is anybody using "NotMuch" as an email client?

[Björn Bidar]

Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> writes:

>> Is "POP3" supported?   Decades ago I opted for "POP3" because "IMAP" (at
>> least then) was unable to do things the way I wanted them done.
>
> Notmuch doesn't do much: it doesn't do any internet protocols. It's
> basically just a database and a command-line tool for that. Other tools
> are needed, like "fetchmail" or some IMAP synchronizing tool for getting
> the mail, Notmuch for indexing and searching the mail files, Notmuch
> Emacs (or other client) for user interface and mail sending (SMTP).
>
> Notmuch Emacs client can be configured to join the parts together but
> user must write a "hook script" for getting the mail and putting the
> files in the right place. The script could handle spam filtering, for
> example. Mine uses "bogofilter" for spam and does some mail tagging like
> adding "mute" or "follow" tags for mail I don't want or want to see.

I want to add that Notmuch much doesn't do pop but using either a POP3 synchronizing client
or a client synchronizes against IMAP will pretty much keep your POP3
centered workflow.
However if you also use IMAP it gets messy or at least conflicts with
the server centered workflow as Notmuch only indexes emails from a file
system and not against an IMAP server.

Regarding what then not Notmuch gui does do or not: most Emacs mail
clients use message-mode to send messages and/or use Gnus article viewer
to view mails.
So no mater what solution you choose so parts of your workflow won't
change.
A big plus is also the Notmuch indexer an external program that doesn't
block Emacs's thread, some that for example Gnus does even if usually only a second
or two.
You can also use Notmuch with Gnus to search emails, I don't know how
much else you can use the Notmuch indexer with Gnus, others have done
that too.

Read:
(info "(gnus) Search Engines")

Re: Is anybody using "NotMuch" as an email client?

[Andreas Eder]

On So 14 Jul 2024 at 02:46, Björn Bidar <bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de> wrote:

> Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> writes:
>
>>> Is "POP3" supported?   Decades ago I opted for "POP3" because "IMAP" (at
>>> least then) was unable to do things the way I wanted them done.
>>
>> Notmuch doesn't do much: it doesn't do any internet protocols. It's
>> basically just a database and a command-line tool for that. Other tools
>> are needed, like "fetchmail" or some IMAP synchronizing tool for getting
>> the mail, Notmuch for indexing and searching the mail files, Notmuch
>> Emacs (or other client) for user interface and mail sending (SMTP).
>>
>> Notmuch Emacs client can be configured to join the parts together but
>> user must write a "hook script" for getting the mail and putting the
>> files in the right place. The script could handle spam filtering, for
>> example. Mine uses "bogofilter" for spam and does some mail tagging like
>> adding "mute" or "follow" tags for mail I don't want or want to see.
>
> I want to add that Notmuch much doesn't do pop but using either a POP3 synchronizing client
> or a client synchronizes against IMAP will pretty much keep your POP3
> centered workflow.
> However if you also use IMAP it gets messy or at least conflicts with
> the server centered workflow as Notmuch only indexes emails from a file
> system and not against an IMAP server.

I have it runnung with both several POP and IMAP accounts without any
problem.
I use  mpop for the POP accounts and mbsync for IMAP. I use a shell
script with crontab to fetch/synchronize the mails.
That works without problems.

'Andreas
-- 
ceterum censeo redmondinem esse delendam

Re: Is anybody using "NotMuch" as an email client?

[Björn Bidar]

Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> writes:

> On So 14 Jul 2024 at 02:46, Björn Bidar <bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de> wrote:
>
>> Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> writes:
>>
>>>> Is "POP3" supported?   Decades ago I opted for "POP3" because "IMAP" (at
>>>> least then) was unable to do things the way I wanted them done.
>>>
>>> Notmuch doesn't do much: it doesn't do any internet protocols. It's
>>> basically just a database and a command-line tool for that. Other tools
>>> are needed, like "fetchmail" or some IMAP synchronizing tool for getting
>>> the mail, Notmuch for indexing and searching the mail files, Notmuch
>>> Emacs (or other client) for user interface and mail sending (SMTP).
>>>
>>> Notmuch Emacs client can be configured to join the parts together but
>>> user must write a "hook script" for getting the mail and putting the
>>> files in the right place. The script could handle spam filtering, for
>>> example. Mine uses "bogofilter" for spam and does some mail tagging like
>>> adding "mute" or "follow" tags for mail I don't want or want to see.
>>
>> I want to add that Notmuch much doesn't do pop but using either a POP3 synchronizing client
>> or a client synchronizes against IMAP will pretty much keep your POP3
>> centered workflow.
>> However if you also use IMAP it gets messy or at least conflicts with
>> the server centered workflow as Notmuch only indexes emails from a file
>> system and not against an IMAP server.
>
> I have it runnung with both several POP and IMAP accounts without any
> problem.

Of course it works but using IMAP by downloading every email and
indexing them locally (one way only?) pretty much turns IMAP into a more
modern version of POP3.

Re: Is anybody using "NotMuch" as an email client?, Re: Is anybody using "NotMuch" as an email client?

[James Thomas]

Dr Rainer Woitok wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> currently I'm using "Rmail" for processing my email.   It works,  but it
> also is rather spartan sometimes.  Somewhere someone mentioned "NotMuch"
> but from searching the Internet, I'm not yet sure it is what I want.

You probably want Gnus. But it'll take some work:

> Currently I'm using the traditional approach of storing related mails in
> "mbox" type mail files.   Rather infrequently I have the need of search-
> ing all mails in an mbox for a string or regular expression.

You should be able to do that in Gnus; I haven't tried it myself, but it
has an mbox backend. For new ones indexing (gnus-search-notmuch is one
option) will be much faster.

> Apart from reading and writing mails I need to reply, to forward and
> occasionally to resend mails.

This works pretty much the same way in Gnus and the other options.

> As for downloading attachments, it's mostly enough to download them
> one by one but sometimes I want to download them all in a single
> sweep.

This is possible in Gnus using nnimap-fetch-partial-articles: it must be
possible to combine it with (info "(gnus) Agent Categories") for
specific kinds of emails, in advance. Manual download on viewing is
possible anyway, and see gnus-mime-replace-part for updating. For
storing mails offline you can enable the 'agent': If you think you'll
download some of the attachments only at a later viewing and want to
update the version stored offline (and of course, if this is an
important factor) you should add gnus-agent-unfetch-articles and
gnus-agent-fetch-selected-article to the appropriate hooks (and there's
also gnus-agent-eagerly-store-articles to play with).

It's a little hard, but from my experience, if you do it right you may
never need to switch email clients again.

Regards,
James