From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Pretest? Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 08:36:47 +0100 Message-ID: <86y7lxtzao.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> References: <87slcf8qxr.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20070309135920.GA3560@kobe.laptop> <87hcsuwk6w.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87hcso2akn.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <878xdy5x57.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1174030628 4075 80.91.229.12 (16 Mar 2007 07:37:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 07:37:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: lekktu@gmail.com, Chong Yidong , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 16 08:37:01 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HS6zk-0001wi-WC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 08:37:01 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HS70p-0007vu-Q4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 02:38:07 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HS70n-0007un-MP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 03:38:05 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HS70l-0007sw-7V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 03:38:04 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HS70l-0007st-1h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 02:38:03 -0500 Original-Received: from pc3.berlin.powerweb.de ([62.67.228.11]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HS6ze-0003ND-OM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 03:36:55 -0400 Original-Received: from quinscape.de (pd95b0fdb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.91.15.219]) by pc3.berlin.powerweb.de (8.9.3p3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19051 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 08:36:48 +0100 X-Delivered-To: Original-Received: (qmail 24671 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 07:36:53 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (HELO lola.quinscape.zz) ([10.0.3.43]) (envelope-sender ) by ns.quinscape.de (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 16 Mar 2007 07:36:53 -0000 Original-Received: by lola.quinscape.zz (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E85A7C9913; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 08:36:47 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Fri\, 16 Mar 2007 01\:21\:16 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:67994 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > By the way, do you actually use emacsclient/server yourself? > > No, I don't use it. I have only occasionally tested it. > > I wonder about the statement that emacsclient is always invoked at > specific user request. Indeed, that is usually so, but is it always > so? As usage becomes more diverse, I expect it will cease to be > true. Why? Does your system tend to asynchronously pop up editors which you, as the user, did not request by some particular interaction? I never have experienced anything like that. The only case where one might be having second thoughts is for the _multi-tty_ branch: there it might be nice to not have the home display changed when one has connected via emacsclient from work in between. However, this is completely unfeasible due to Emacs' lack of multi-threading terminals: at some point of time, top-level will get executed in the remote tty, anyway. So I can't see where you get your ideas about typical usage of emacsclient, and it does not particularly help that you state that you don't actually use it, in contrast to the people reporting their expected behaviors. Perhaps you are thinking that one will use emacsclient --eval for doing some noninteractive system task in some asynchronous manner. However, it would be an awful mistake to do this with an interactive Emacs session since the state of such a session and the files it may have open (including password-protected files in different accounts accessed via tramp) are completely unknown. In spite of its name, emacsclient is very much restricted to behaving like an interactive _editor_. Using it for noninteractive non-user-initiated tasks would not be feasible. If you really wanted to build a system service executing Elisp based on it, you'd start an Emacs of its own, non-interactively, detached from a tty. We can't even do that in Emacs 22. So please let us not base our defaults on some weird case that is not likely to become the default usage in future and can't even be usefully employed in that manner in Emacs 22. -- David Kastrup