From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Alain Schneble Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: feature/integrated-elpa 4f6df43 15/23: README added Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 22:57:29 +0200 Message-ID: <86y41koy4m.fsf@realize.ch> References: <20160916203414.25203.87032@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <83mvi51y3b.fsf@gnu.org> <87instslxu.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83inst1vut.fsf@gnu.org> <87eg3ekjz2.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83vawpx677.fsf@gnu.org> <87h989ixxd.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83mvi1ww6m.fsf@gnu.org> <87wph5fw0w.fsf@russet.org.uk> <838ttlwodt.fsf@gnu.org> <878ttl3342.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <8360opwjs2.fsf@gnu.org> <8760oosrn8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83shrsvj3g.fsf@gnu.org> <86twc8r8gw.fsf@realize.ch> <83r37cvfo6.fsf@gnu.org> <86oa2gr7jb.fsf@realize.ch> <86k2d4r5y5.fsf@realize.ch> <87bmygfjso.fsf@russet.org.uk> <86bmygqh49.fsf@realize.ch> <87shrs6qak.fsf@russet.org.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1476910733 7869 195.159.176.226 (19 Oct 2016 20:58:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 20:58:53 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (windows-nt) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Stromeko@nexgo.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Phillip Lord Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 19 22:58:49 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bwxwb-0008IJ-Ns for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 22:58:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51186 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwxwe-0004LV-1b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 16:58:40 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35430) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwxwX-0004KC-GH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 16:58:34 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwxwW-0002nq-Nk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 16:58:33 -0400 Original-Received: from clientmail.realize.ch ([46.140.89.53]:4969) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwxwR-0002il-6P; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 16:58:27 -0400 Original-Received: from rintintin.hq.realize.ch.lan.rit (Unknown [192.168.0.105]) by clientmail.realize.ch with ESMTP ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 22:57:22 +0200 Original-Received: from myngb (192.168.66.64) by rintintin.hq.realize.ch.lan.rit (192.168.0.105) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.516.32; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 22:57:28 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87shrs6qak.fsf@russet.org.uk> (Phillip Lord's message of "Wed, 19 Oct 2016 21:24:03 +0100") X-ClientProxiedBy: rintintin.hq.realize.ch.lan.rit (192.168.0.105) To rintintin.hq.realize.ch.lan.rit (192.168.0.105) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Windows NT kernel [generic] X-Received-From: 46.140.89.53 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:208508 Archived-At: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes: > Alain Schneble writes: > >> But don't get me wrong. I really don't think this will be the usual >> case. In most if not all packages, accounting for such misuses won't be >> required at all. I just wanted to prove it's not an unsolvable problem. > > I like this, and it gives a nice error message of deprecation, and I > think that is good. But this is a solution which requires package > developers to explicitly support declarations of deprecation. Indeed. But in case a package offers a public feature/interface to be used by anybody, including non-package code, such an explicit handling would be TRTTD, IMO. > Just removing "food-package-1.0" from `load-path` gives a less nice > error message, but it still fails fast, and requires no developer > support True. But I don't think we have to account for all possible "misuses" and bugs. We all run into issues. But we have to try to not get biased by a specific problem one once had and which might have taken hours to fix, if after all it's clearly a "usage error" or -- depending on how you see it -- in your case a deprecation of a public functionality in a package that wasn't flagged as deprecated in the first place, before actually having been removed. Emacs is more like a white box. You will always find dozen of ways to break something. But we shall not primarily focus on such edge-case scenarios, I think. And I think this discussion has nothing to do with the directory layout. It's a different topic IMO, though you try to fix it with the directory layout. Alain