From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: discoverability, better defaults and which-key in Emacs Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2024 09:43:00 +0200 Message-ID: <86v877xqez.fsf@gnu.org> References: <874jetaxri.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <86fryc1vsh.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1c398u8.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <867cjnz7rc.fsf@gnu.org> <87jznnbbax.fsf@dataswamp.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10136"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Emanuel Berg Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 02 08:44:03 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rVoDT-0002SY-3w for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 08:44:03 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rVoCj-000649-53; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 02:43:17 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rVoCi-00063z-1D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 02:43:16 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rVoCV-0000W7-Sr; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 02:43:14 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=HlROVb4cENGQnQPXP8a1GR72wOTwhEpleTDpVd4OCFU=; b=CZtwthepIpXt TGIRaOXg3Vx9nUtbZct9Ek9FVU5DXPqEzwXz2iQPcRGVqmqmalIR2UOMrj85nwzfCfJ+X7gBV1GLP lFvitZ/HbNyWaWcpyM33VhbjXwGRmnARoPM50JaiwkuLC0F8d+6HEyQGW96OvysiX3P4N663r06VX MfHRyBdaOmW5QkzfngOrBEjNlGWw/9POnqVe1ZOB/wuswGeX2XSqTzn0opjSOCEU9ZhkSTqmibexV Uu9sbTcBI6tSzbJ99qiM6JPb6NbXBChTC6dUArw3nigBGLeOIaMuSFV+q5ZzuJ3WYEaRRyuAvKVkN wRyuZs0yK5evwswheI7ovA==; In-Reply-To: <87jznnbbax.fsf@dataswamp.org> (message from Emanuel Berg on Fri, 02 Feb 2024 08:00:22 +0100) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:315741 Archived-At: > From: Emanuel Berg > Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2024 08:00:22 +0100 > > Instead of Emacs finding out who is a new user or old, new and > old users alike should find what they look for in Emacs. > > With configuration, maybe one can have a FAQ specifically for > that. If one has the 20 most common configuration use cases > listed with Elisp one-liners to do it, that would be a good > start. And beyond that, people already have experience anyway. This idea came up several times here, and was met with a general agreement, but no one stepped forward to work on those "most common configurations". And it is not easy to do, since the configurations depend on the needs of the user (whether the user is a programmer and in what language(s), what other tasks and jobs does the user want to accomplish in Emacs -- email, todo items, etc.) and also some general user preferences (mouse vs keyboard etc.). Patches welcome, of course. > Another case is finding code in core Emacs and in ELPA to do > stuff so one don't spend time writing Elisp for that oneself. > This is an area where I failed big time myself. Maybe today > googling can offer more as much more code is available online? The Emacs apropos commands, if used wisely, should help you. You might find that some of our documentation needs to be enhanced to make discoverability easier, in which case please report the deficiencies, so we could make this better. > I for one would be very interested to know what of my Elisp > I can discard in favor of using stuff in core Emacs. > But I don't have a confident answer how to find out. Some Emacs commands I suggest for this are: C-u M-x apropos M-x apropos-documentation C-h R elisp RET followed by 'i' (Info-index) and the subject