Is it only me or is your ding also silent?

Is it only me or is your ding also silent?

[Marcin Borkowski]

Hi all,

as in the subject.  I defined

(defun system-beep ()
  (call-process "beep"))

which beeps, but M-: (ding) does not produce any sound here.  I have
fresh Emacs compiled from sources on fresh Arch GNU/Linux.  Is it
because ring-bell-function is nil?  In the old days, C-g or M-: (ding)
used to beep!

Best,

--
Marcin Borkowski

Re: Is it only me or is your ding also silent?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl>
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 06:42:52 +0200
> 
> as in the subject.  I defined
> 
> (defun system-beep ()
>   (call-process "beep"))
> 
> which beeps, but M-: (ding) does not produce any sound here.

It does here.

> I have fresh Emacs compiled from sources on fresh Arch GNU/Linux.

Could be some system-level setting, unrelated to Emacs, perhaps?

> Is it because ring-bell-function is nil?

No, ring-bell-function is for when you want to customize how to rin
the bell, then you need to write a function to do that and bind
ring-bell-function to it.  By default, ring-bell-function always was
nil, because Emacs is using its own code to beep.

> In the old days, C-g or M-: (ding) used to beep!

It still does here.

Re: Is it only me or is your ding also silent?

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2017-07-21, at 08:09, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

>> From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl>
>> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 06:42:52 +0200
>> 
>> as in the subject.  I defined
>> 
>> (defun system-beep ()
>>   (call-process "beep"))
>> 
>> which beeps, but M-: (ding) does not produce any sound here.
>
> It does here.
>
>> I have fresh Emacs compiled from sources on fresh Arch GNU/Linux.
>
> Could be some system-level setting, unrelated to Emacs, perhaps?

I doubt it; the command line "beep" program does indeed beep.

Also, I checked with emacs -Q, just to be sure.  Still silence.

>> Is it because ring-bell-function is nil?
>
> No, ring-bell-function is for when you want to customize how to rin
> the bell, then you need to write a function to do that and bind
> ring-bell-function to it.  By default, ring-bell-function always was
> nil, because Emacs is using its own code to beep.

That's what I would think, but I wanted to make sure.

>> In the old days, C-g or M-: (ding) used to beep!
>
> It still does here.

Strange...

-- 
Marcin Borkowski

Re: Is it only me or is your ding also silent?

[Héctor Lahoz]

In my system C-g beeps. M-: is bound to eval-expression so it doesn't.

Try describe-key C-g. In my system it is bound to keyboard-quit and it
does beep.

Re: Is it only me or is your ding also silent?

[Héctor Lahoz]

Héctor Lahoz wrote:
> In my system C-g beeps. M-: is bound to eval-expression so it doesn't.

Sorry, I misunderstood the "(ding)". So it must be something related
to "(ding)".

Re: Is it only me or is your ding also silent?

[Emanuel Berg]

Marcin Borkowski wrote:

> ding

Man, I thought this thread was about Gnus...

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Is it only me or is your ding also silent?

[Héctor Lahoz]

Emanuel Berg wrote:
> Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> 
> > ding
> 
> Man, I thought this thread was about Gnus...

I think this is addressed to me so let me explain.

When I read:

but M-: (ding) does not produce any sound here

I understood:

but @kbd{M-:} (ding) does not produce any sound here

instead of the intended:

but @kbd{M-: (ding)} does not produce any sound here

Plain text is great but sometimes not too great :-)

I have some people in my list of Emacs gurus. Eli, you and some more.
It is difficul to communicate with someone you don't know at all. But
then, life would be too boring without some misunderstandings,
wouldn't it?

Besides, I still have some problems with English. Let's be honest
here. I'll never master English as if it was my mother tongue. So I'd
like to be able to read the Emacs manual in my own language. Just
because I feel more comfortable with it.

Never mind :-)

Re: Is it only me or is your ding also silent?

[Emanuel Berg]

Héctor Lahoz wrote:

> Besides, I still have some problems with
> English. Let's be honest here. I'll never
> master English as if it was my mother tongue.

No one did. Open a drawer in your kitchen and
start talking about the stuff you find there,
in English. Or read a book about the seven
seas. What are all these ship parts called, and
can you explain their purposes in English, even
as it is explained in the book?

With technology (computers) it is
another matter. One - there are so many
specific terms that have never been, and
shouldn't be, translated. (We talked about
"cut" in the other thread.) Second - there are
so many books and so much material that will
never be translated. Material which you need
and want.

This is why, after reading tons of such books,
and being in zillions of discussions -
hopefully not every single one of them about
"cut" - at that point it is more natural to
forever do it in English. Not because anyone is
"as good" in English as they are in their
native language in general.

> So I'd like to be able to read the Emacs
> manual in my own language. Just because
> I feel more comfortable with it.

Yes, and it is completely natural!

But depending on the situation for your
language, at some point you simply cannot do
that as there isn't any material left and you
still want to push further. And beyond that
point, you will soon be assimilated to.

Resistance is futile :)

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Is it only me or is your ding also silent?

[tomas]

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On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 06:42:52AM +0200, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> as in the subject.  I defined
> 
> (defun system-beep ()
>   (call-process "beep"))

The thread veered off-topic, but since I don't see a solution yet,
I'll give it a shot. A long shot, but hey...

Try finding out your X settings: in a terminal, issue

  xset q

That's what happens on my box:

 | tomas@rasputin:~$ xset q
 | Keyboard Control:
 |   auto repeat:  on    key click percent:  0    LED mask:  00000000
 |   XKB indicators:
 [...]
 |   bell percent:  0    bell pitch:  400    bell duration:  100
 [...]

(some output elided)

If you have "bell percent" set to 0, you might try

  xset b

or something similar. That wouldn't explain that "beep" actually
(uh) beeps (did I say that it was a long shot?), but worth trying.

Cheers
- -- tomás 
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Re: Is it only me or is your ding also silent?

[Héctor Lahoz]

tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 06:42:52AM +0200, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > as in the subject.  I defined
> > 
> > (defun system-beep ()
> >   (call-process "beep"))
> 
> The thread veered off-topic, but since I don't see a solution yet,
> I'll give it a shot. A long shot, but hey...
> 
> Try finding out your X settings: in a terminal, issue
> 
>   xset q
> 

So Emacs doesn't do it itself. It just tells X window: "ring my bell".
That's an old song :-) It makes sense since it is user interaction.

It's one of those unimportant things that is simply there but you
don't pay much attention. Until it stops working.

Now my bell sounds much clearer. Thanks :-)

Re: Is it only me or is your ding also silent?

[tomas]

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On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 02:53:35PM +0200, Héctor Lahoz wrote:

[...]

> So Emacs doesn't do it itself. It just tells X window: "ring my bell".
> That's an old song :-) It makes sense since it is user interaction.

:-)

> It's one of those unimportant things that is simply there but you
> don't pay much attention. Until it stops working.

I had a dim memory because I don't like my computer yelling at me
(the curses of an open plan office, I guess). So I had to dig that
up once...

> Now my bell sounds much clearer. Thanks :-)

Glad it helped :-)

Cheers
- -- t
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Re: Is it only me or is your ding also silent?

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2017-07-22, at 11:17, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 06:42:52AM +0200, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> as in the subject.  I defined
>> 
>> (defun system-beep ()
>>   (call-process "beep"))
>
> The thread veered off-topic, but since I don't see a solution yet,
> I'll give it a shot. A long shot, but hey...
>
> Try finding out your X settings: in a terminal, issue
>
>   xset q
>
> That's what happens on my box:
>
>  | tomas@rasputin:~$ xset q
>  | Keyboard Control:
>  |   auto repeat:  on    key click percent:  0    LED mask:  00000000
>  |   XKB indicators:
>  [...]
>  |   bell percent:  0    bell pitch:  400    bell duration:  100
>  [...]
>
> (some output elided)
>
> If you have "bell percent" set to 0, you might try
>
>   xset b
>
> or something similar. That wouldn't explain that "beep" actually
> (uh) beeps (did I say that it was a long shot?), but worth trying.

Hi Tomás,

I'm *so* much impressed - you nailed it!  Now my Emacs is wonderfully
talkative, erm, beepative;-).  Thanks!!!

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski

Re: Is it only me or is your ding also silent?

[tomas]

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On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 07:58:35AM +0200, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> 
> On 2017-07-22, at 11:17, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
[...]

> > or something similar. That wouldn't explain that "beep" actually
> > (uh) beeps (did I say that it was a long shot?), but worth trying.
> 
> Hi Tomás,
> 
> I'm *so* much impressed - you nailed it!  Now my Emacs is wonderfully
> talkative, erm, beepative;-).  Thanks!!!
> 
> Best,

.-)

- -- tomás
   "even a blind hen sometimes finds a grain of corn"
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Re: Is it only me or is your ding also silent?

[Emanuel Berg]

>> > or something similar. That wouldn't explain
>> > that "beep" actually (uh) beeps (did I say
>> > that it was a long shot?), but
>> > worth trying.
>> Hi Tomás,
>> I'm *so* much impressed - you nailed it!
>> Now my Emacs is wonderfully talkative, erm,
>> beepative;-). Thanks!!!
>> Best,
>
> .-)

All this enthusiasm puzzles me. Why would one
ever want the computer to BEEP?

When I did configuration on system wide-scale,
instead of just brining in all the config files
from remote systems, the first thing I ever did
was to disable every single sound the computer
would ever think of making. The second thing
I did was to disable the cursor blink, which
I consider visual noise, everywhere - quite
a few places, actually, even if you use Emacs
23 if not 24/7. The third thing I did was put
the background image to pamela.bmp ha ha... eheh.

No, sound. Why?

But TEHO etc etc.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Is it only me or is your ding also silent?

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2017-07-23, at 13:11, Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> wrote:

>>> > or something similar. That wouldn't explain
>>> > that "beep" actually (uh) beeps (did I say
>>> > that it was a long shot?), but
>>> > worth trying.
>>> Hi Tomás,
>>> I'm *so* much impressed - you nailed it!
>>> Now my Emacs is wonderfully talkative, erm,
>>> beepative;-). Thanks!!!
>>> Best,
>>
>> .-)
>
> All this enthusiasm puzzles me. Why would one
> ever want the computer to BEEP?

Because sometimes I am away from it and I want to be notified that
something happened?  Y'know, some of us do not stare at the screen all
day long;-P.

> When I did configuration on system wide-scale,
> instead of just brining in all the config files
> from remote systems, the first thing I ever did
> was to disable every single sound the computer
> would ever think of making. The second thing
> I did was to disable the cursor blink, which
> I consider visual noise, everywhere - quite
> a few places, actually, even if you use Emacs
> 23 if not 24/7. The third thing I did was put
> the background image to pamela.bmp ha ha... eheh.
>
> No, sound. Why?

I like sound.  Music.  Birds.  Singing.  My child babbling.  My computer
beeping.

Best,

--
Marcin Borkowski

Re: Is it only me or is your ding also silent?

[Emanuel Berg]

Marcin Borkowski wrote:

> Y'know, some of us do not stare at the screen
> all day long;-P.

Ha! I operate a bike repair shop!

    http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/work-photos/stand.jpg
    
    http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/work-photos/wood.jpg

You are just fooled because I type so fast.
And never sleep...

Besides, I use a projector unlike you
troglodytes who stare into paleo-monitors with
poor posture and sandpaper eyes...

:)

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573