From: Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>
To: Timothy <orgmode@tec.tecosaur.net>
Cc: Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com>,
Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com>,
emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: org exported pdf files
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2022 03:08:35 +1000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <86tu4ro11c.fsf@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <877d1n3ky0.fsf@tec.tecosaur.net>
Timothy <orgmode@tec.tecosaur.net> writes:
> Hi Tim,
>
>> It would probably be good to add the two above packages as part of the
>> ’default’ package preamble, but this would require considerable testing
>> as it isn’t known if there will be adverse effects when mixed with other
>> packages.
>
> Those packages are early accessibility experiments, and are /not/ intended for
> wider use. See the top of the <https://github.com/AndyClifton/accessibility>
> README: “Prototype. Not suitable for production”. The author themselves said in
> a [2020 tex.SE answer] that:
>
> `accessibility' was developed and published back in 2007 as a proof of concept for
> some of the KOMA document styles. I got hold of the files from the author in
> 2019 and took over maintenance with her permission. I tidied up the package
> enough to get it to CTAN, but didn’t update the functionality. I also published
> it to GitHub to get some feedback on it.
>
> It seems to have worked well in 2007 for a few test cases. Unfortunately it now
> fails every test case, and it looks like needing some serious efforts to fix.
>
> Because of this I no longer think that accessibility is fit for purpose.
>
> They also go on to make a comment I’ve seen a few times from the people working
> on the latex3 accessibility project — basically that in order to actually get
> a /good/ solution, we’ll need to wait till support is baked into the LaTeX core.
>
> If we’re desperate to add this, we’ll likely want to look at `tagpdf' which is
> written by someone working on the latex3 accessibility project. It is apparently
> capable of passing PCA3, however according to the author:
>
> `tagpdf' hasn’t been written as a user package but to allow experiments and tests
> and to help to identify missing interfaces in the kernel and in packages. It can
> change at any time in incompatible ways and it requires some skills to use it.
>
> So, while it may be a particularly boring answer, I think “wait and see” is our
> current best bet.
>
> All the best,
> Timothy
>
>
> [2020 tex.SE answer] <https://tex.stackexchange.com/a/551287/167605>
None of what yuo wrote is a surprise. Unfortunately, it does mean two
things
1. Org mode cannot be used to create accessible PDF documents as long as
it depends on the latex environment to generate those documents.
2. Technically, Org mode cannot be used in any organisation (specifically government
funded) where ther are policies which require that documents be
accessible. For example, technically, this means we cannot use org mode
in Australian government organisations, which would also include
Universities. I suspect other countries have similar accessibility
requriements, especially in government and government funded
organisations).
I say technically because despite such policies, the level of
accessibility in many work and educational environments is very poor. In
Australia, few government departments have reached the accessibility
levels specified in policies which are now nearly 20 years old. The
private sector is even worse. While I have seen improvements in the last
40 years, I have yet to work in an environment where just a majority of
the systems I need to access in order to do my job effectively meet
minimal accessibility standards.
I don't know if other document processors, like perhaps pandoc, can
create PDF files which contain the tagging and other structural
metadatra necessary to make PDFs accessible.
Note that org also lacks any accessibility support for HTML generated
documents as well. However, this is less problematic as authors do have
some ability to add the necessary attributes that can improve
accessibility - an option not available with Latex.
An unfortunate situation really - especially given Emacs has one of the
most powerful and advanced accessibility options available via
emacspeak.
I also won't hold my breath for a new latgex core. THe latex3 initiative
seems to have failed or at least appears to be slower to be realised than perl6!
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-09-28 17:40 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 34+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-09-27 1:48 org exported pdf files Jude DaShiell
2022-09-27 2:48 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-09-27 3:15 ` Jude DaShiell
2022-09-27 3:24 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-09-27 4:31 ` Jude DaShiell
2022-09-27 4:58 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-09-28 4:36 ` Jude DaShiell
2022-09-28 4:53 ` Timothy
2022-09-28 6:48 ` Jude DaShiell
2022-09-28 8:47 ` Tim Cross
2022-09-28 9:19 ` Timothy
2022-09-28 17:08 ` Tim Cross [this message]
2022-09-28 17:39 ` Timothy
2022-09-28 18:23 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-09-29 20:58 ` Tim Cross
2022-09-29 4:09 ` Org HTML export accessibility (was: org exported pdf files) Ihor Radchenko
2022-09-29 8:22 ` Tim Cross
2022-09-29 11:43 ` Jude DaShiell
2022-09-29 21:05 ` Apology [was: Re: Org HTML export accessibility (was: org exported pdf files)) Tim Cross
2022-09-30 5:34 ` tomas
2022-10-02 10:59 ` Apology [ Fraga, Eric
2022-10-02 9:42 ` [HELP] Help implementing org-lint/warnings buffer during export (was: Org HTML export accessibility (was: org exported pdf files)) Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-02 20:52 ` Tim Cross
2022-10-03 3:25 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-09-29 7:07 ` org exported pdf files Max Nikulin
2022-09-29 21:00 ` Tim Cross
2022-10-01 10:55 ` Max Nikulin
2022-09-28 13:02 ` Jude DaShiell
2022-09-28 16:12 ` Max Nikulin
2022-09-27 11:08 ` Max Nikulin
2022-09-28 3:07 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-09-28 15:58 ` Max Nikulin
2022-09-29 4:12 ` Add \usepackage{cmap} as default LaTeX class in ox-latex (was: org exported pdf files) Ihor Radchenko
2022-09-29 15:34 ` Max Nikulin
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