JIT Emacs parallel world

JIT Emacs parallel world

[Emanuel Berg]

I think the easiest way to get my gear from
Emacs 24 to Emacs 27 JIT is to start over and
bring stuff over one piece at a time,
correcting each error/warning as I go along.

So the current situation is, I have Emacs 24
installed from the repos, I have Emacs-w3m
installed from the repos, I have all my gear in
a directory in ~/.emacs.d, which is loaded from
~/.emacs - all everyday stuff in other words.

Emacs 27 JIT tho I got from Git and built
manually - if that is the right word - but
I didn't install it. So I have it in
a directory all to itself.

Now, in order to carry out my plan, how can
I tell Emacs 27 JIT to look for another init
file (NOT the one I have for Emacs 24,
~/.emacs), and use another Emacs directory
(NOT ~/.emacs.d) ?

TIA

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: JIT Emacs parallel world

[Phillip Lord]

On Fri, October 19, 2018 11:18 am, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> I think the easiest way to get my gear from
> Emacs 24 to Emacs 27 JIT is to start over and
> bring stuff over one piece at a time, correcting each error/warning as I go
> along.
>
> So the current situation is, I have Emacs 24
> installed from the repos, I have Emacs-w3m installed from the repos, I have
> all my gear in a directory in ~/.emacs.d, which is loaded from ~/.emacs -
> all everyday stuff in other words.
>
> Emacs 27 JIT tho I got from Git and built
> manually - if that is the right word - but I didn't install it. So I have
> it in a directory all to itself.
>
> Now, in order to carry out my plan, how can
> I tell Emacs 27 JIT to look for another init
> file (NOT the one I have for Emacs 24, ~/.emacs), and use another Emacs
> directory (NOT ~/.emacs.d) ?


This is not the right way to do things. Emacs-27 is currently not released
and liable to be unstable. The jit branch is more so. Updating from an old
version (Emacs-24) to an unstable branch is not going to leave you in a
good place to debug any issues.

First, move your stuff from Emacs-24 to Emacs-26 -- either one you build
or a pre-compiled version. If want to try Emacs-27 with the JIT branch, do
so from there; there is a reasonably good change that you will have to
make no configuration changes between 26 and 27 (jit or otherwise).
Install as many packages as you can via package.el. Personally, I modify
`package-user-dir'  so that it includes the version number and
auto-install packages with use-package, but this is probably not
necessary.

Finally, I would use `git worktree` so that you can have both Emacs-27 and
Emacs-27 JIT branch compiled and ready to go. If you are going to live on
an unstable Emacs you may find yourself needing to switch periodically.

Re: JIT Emacs parallel world

[Emanuel Berg]

Phillip Lord wrote:

> First, move your stuff from Emacs-24 to
> Emacs-26 -- either one you build or
> a pre-compiled version.

OK, but this implies the same problem, only
Emacs-27 JIT is replaced by Emacs-26. I'm happy
to download and build Emacs-26 from Git but,
again, how do I give it its own .emacs file and
.emacs.d directory so not to interfere with my
repository Emacs-24?

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: JIT Emacs parallel world

[Phillip Lord]

On Sat, October 20, 2018 6:04 am, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> Phillip Lord wrote:
>
>
>> First, move your stuff from Emacs-24 to
>> Emacs-26 -- either one you build or
>> a pre-compiled version.
>
> OK, but this implies the same problem, only
> Emacs-27 JIT is replaced by Emacs-26. I'm happy
> to download and build Emacs-26 from Git but, again, how do I give it its
> own .emacs file and .emacs.d directory so not to interfere with my
> repository Emacs-24?


Why do you need to have two .emacs? If you are going to move from Emacs-24
to Emacs-26, then you need to *port* your existing .emacs. If you are
worried about going backward just copy it, or version it.

My own .emacs (and associated files) is fairly big and complex, but has
very minimal version specific code in it. I generally run on the head of
the release branch (currently Emacs-26) and I only support two versions
when I have to -- so when Emacs-27 is created (the branch, rather than
what is currently on master) I will do so, because Emacs-27 will be a
little unstable.

If you really need two .emacs, then you have to launch at least one Emacs
with `-q -l ~/.emacs-27" or equivalent. You can use this to reset
`user-emacs-directory'. But really consider if you need do this.

Re: JIT Emacs parallel world

[Emanuel Berg]

Phillip Lord wrote:

> Why do you need to have two .emacs? If you
> are going to move from Emacs-24 to Emacs-26,
> then you need to *port* your existing .emacs.
> If you are worried about going backward just
> copy it, or version it.

I have 100+ Elisp files (written by me) and it
all works like a Swiss watch from Terra Prima,
and I know mucking around with it on a large
scale will break Emacs, and I need Emacs to fix
it, and every time that happened was very
unpleasant and frustrating job, so no, I stick
to the repos' Emacs if it can't be
done otherwise.

> If you really need two .emacs, then you have
> to launch at least one Emacs with `-q -l
> ~/.emacs-27" or equivalent. You can use this
> to reset `user-emacs-directory'.

Yeah, I knew it would come to this. So thanks
for saying it. Now I know it also needs to
happen...

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: JIT Emacs parallel world

[Emanuel Berg]

I installed Emacs-26 from Git and once again
I have to congratulate on such a super-simple
"manual" install!

However byte-compiling the Elisp from my
Emacs-24 showed the same (identical?) pattern
from my attempt with Emacs-27 JIT.


    1) Some errors with ERC, with no hints as
       to what to do;

    2) lots of outdated stuff with
       recommendations - easy to fix in other
       words; and

    3) complete breakage with Emacs-w3m, which
       I do have from the repositories just
       as I do Emacs-24.


With ERC, it looks a bit bad, but I'll take it
to gmane.emacs.erc.general. It looks bad
because ERC IIRC comes with Emacs, so stuff
shouldn't just disappear between versions with
no clue as to what to do - or am I wrong?

With Emacs-w3m, I'll ask at gmane.emacs.w3m how
to do a manual install and hook it to
a non-installed version of Emacs.
Because Emacs-w3m is a separate package in the
repositories, I understand there is a gap where
it might not work seamlessly, and that this is
what is actually happening.

I just thought I'd tell you all this FYI.

With Debian, despite using it for 10+ years,
I don't know how the progression of software
versions in their repos work. So when and/or
how will the new Emacs versions appear?

What I have is:

    Linux raspberrypi 4.9.35-v7+ #1014 SMP Fri Jun 30 14:47:43 BST 2017 armv7l GNU/Linux

    No LSB modules are available.
    Distributor ID: Raspbian
    Description:    Raspbian GNU/Linux 8.0 (jessie)
    Release:        8.0
    Codename:       jessie

    Revision:       a02082

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: JIT Emacs parallel world

[Richard Melville]

On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 19:09, Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> wrote:

> I installed Emacs-26 from Git and once again
> I have to congratulate on such a super-simple
> "manual" install!
>
> ---
>
> With Emacs-w3m, I'll ask at gmane.emacs.w3m how
> to do a manual install and hook it to
> a non-installed version of Emacs.
> Because Emacs-w3m is a separate package in the
> repositories, I understand there is a gap where
> it might not work seamlessly, and that this is
> what is actually happening.
>

Now that you have Emacs-26 why not use EWW which comes pre-installed.  I've
stopped using Emacs-w3m in favour of EWW, mainly because EWW comes with the
DuckDuckGo search engine.

Richard

Re: JIT Emacs parallel world

[Emanuel Berg]

Richard Melville wrote:

> Now that you have Emacs-26 why not use EWW
> which comes pre-installed. I've stopped using
> Emacs-w3m in favour of EWW, mainly because
> EWW comes with the DuckDuckGo search engine.

I have tons of stuff with Emacs-w3m [1] and
I don't feel like porting that to EWW for the
sake of a search engine :) Besides cannot one
use DuckDuckGo with Emacs-w3m as well?

[1] http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/emacs-init/w3m/

-- 
underground experts united
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Re: JIT Emacs parallel world

[Tomas Nordin]

Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> writes:

> Richard Melville wrote:
>
>> Now that you have Emacs-26 why not use EWW
>> which comes pre-installed. I've stopped using
>> Emacs-w3m in favour of EWW, mainly because
>> EWW comes with the DuckDuckGo search engine.
>
> I have tons of stuff with Emacs-w3m [1] and
> I don't feel like porting that to EWW for the
> sake of a search engine :) Besides cannot one
> use DuckDuckGo with Emacs-w3m as well?

Yes, of course:

(use-package w3m-search
  :config
  (add-to-list 'w3m-search-engine-alist
               '("duck" "https://duckduckgo.com/lite/?q=%s"))
  (setq w3m-search-default-engine "duck"))

this is what I have, configured with the package use-package.

>
> [1] http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/emacs-init/w3m/
>
> -- 
> underground experts united
> http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: JIT Emacs parallel world

[Andreas Röhler]

On 20.10.2018 12:04, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> Phillip Lord wrote:
> 
>> First, move your stuff from Emacs-24 to
>> Emacs-26 -- either one you build or
>> a pre-compiled version.
> 
> OK, but this implies the same problem, only
> Emacs-27 JIT is replaced by Emacs-26. I'm happy
> to download and build Emacs-26 from Git but,
> again, how do I give it its own .emacs file and
> .emacs.d directory so not to interfere with my
> repository Emacs-24?
> 

I'm using .emacs only to dispatch

(cond
  ((string-match "^23" emacs-version)
   (load (expand-file-name "~/.gnu-emacs23-all-cvs"))
   (setq custom-file (expand-file-name "~/.gnu-emacs23-cvs-custom")))
  ((string-match "^24" emacs-version)
   (load (expand-file-name "~/.gnu-emacs24"))
   (setq custom-file (expand-file-name "~/.gnu-emacs24-custom")))
  ((string-match "^25" emacs-version)
   (load (expand-file-name "~/.gnu-emacs25"))
   (setq custom-file (expand-file-name "~/.gnu-emacs25-custom")))
  ((string-match "^26" emacs-version)
   (load (expand-file-name "~/.gnu-emacs25"))
   (setq custom-file (expand-file-name "~/.gnu-emacs25-custom")))
  ((string-match "^27" emacs-version)
   (load (expand-file-name "~/.gnu-emacs25"))
   (setq custom-file (expand-file-name "~/.gnu-emacs25-custom"))
   ))

With emacs.d, that's another thing. De facto often loading from 
git-repos setting load-path and require, not from package-manager.

HTH,
Andreas

Re: JIT Emacs parallel world

[Emanuel Berg]

Andreas Röhler wrote:

> I'm using .emacs only to dispatch
>
> (cond
>  ((string-match "^23" emacs-version)
>   (load (expand-file-name "~/.gnu-emacs23-all-cvs"))
>   (setq custom-file (expand-file-name "~/.gnu-emacs23-cvs-custom")))
>  ((string-match "^24" emacs-version)
>   (load (expand-file-name "~/.gnu-emacs24"))
>   (setq custom-file (expand-file-name "~/.gnu-emacs24-custom")))
>  ((string-match "^25" emacs-version)
>   (load (expand-file-name "~/.gnu-emacs25"))
>   (setq custom-file (expand-file-name "~/.gnu-emacs25-custom")))
>  ((string-match "^26" emacs-version)
>   (load (expand-file-name "~/.gnu-emacs25"))
>   (setq custom-file (expand-file-name "~/.gnu-emacs25-custom")))
>  ((string-match "^27" emacs-version)
>   (load (expand-file-name "~/.gnu-emacs25"))
>   (setq custom-file (expand-file-name "~/.gnu-emacs25-custom"))
>   ))
>
> With emacs.d, that's another thing. De facto
> often loading from git-repos setting load-path
> and require, not from package-manager.

With emacs.d for me, mostly it contains Elisp
that are loaded explicitely from .emacs.
So I don't see why this wouldn't work for me!

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underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573