From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juri Linkov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Keybindings and changing keyboard layout [was: Writting Greek in Emacs] Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2024 20:55:15 +0300 Organization: LINKOV.NET Message-ID: <86o74ggbak.fsf@mail.linkov.net> References: <87frpvk8l9.fsf@thanosapollo.org> <87zfo1khkd.fsf@thanosapollo.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37703"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/31.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 21 20:11:56 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ss4aK-0009gL-1S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 21 Sep 2024 20:11:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ss4ZK-0005sA-VR; Sat, 21 Sep 2024 14:10:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ss4ZI-0005rg-S1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Sep 2024 14:10:52 -0400 Original-Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net ([2001:4b98:dc4:8::223]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ss4ZG-0006Fo-PR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Sep 2024 14:10:52 -0400 Original-Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7509760002; Sat, 21 Sep 2024 18:10:45 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (tomas@tuxteam.de's message of "Sat, 21 Sep 2024 07:40:50 +0200") X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:4b98:dc4:8::223; envelope-from=juri@linkov.net; helo=relay3-d.mail.gandi.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:323903 Archived-At: >> > As to input method using modifier keys, it might lead to conflicts with >> > default key bindings for some commands. >> >> Yes, when I write in Greek I do not have access to emacs keybindings >> (C-b etc). > > Yes, this is somewhat annoying, but I haven't yet a good idea on how > to cope with that. > > I like to change the keyboard layout at the X level, since then I can > also type in Greek into a terminal or into a (gasp!) browser, and the > keyboard layout stays consistent. > > But Emacs (rightfully) balks at me that CTRL-β is a funny control sequence. > > Surprisingly, some applications seem to magically "cope" in some way. In > Firefox, CTRL-τ opens a new tab (as CTRL-t would do under a Latin layout). > But this doesn't really count: Firefox has just a few useful keybindings > and the whole model actually discourages using them, while Emacs has > a very rich set of bindings which is at the core of its user interaction. > > Given the very dense keybindings in Emacs, this seems like a daunting > task: I even guess it has some ugly fuzzy borders: just blindly going > by "places" in the keyboard brings up issues like CTRL-Z and CTRL-Y > being switched for German layouts, and Germans would expect those bindings > to "move" with the key labels instead of following "geometry". Likewise > for French ("A" "Z" where usually "Q" and "W" are, etc). This is bug#43830. Patches welcome.