From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs,gmane.emacs.orgmode Subject: bug#68687: [PATCH] Use text/org media type Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2024 14:52:16 +0200 Message-ID: <86jznr2dbz.fsf@gnu.org> References: <6d94fff4-4d30-4121-bfd1-f267cb5b637c@gmail.com> <8734uqpvgn.fsf@tec.tecosaur.net> <49fa47c0-522a-46d7-ba0d-6e688aa26a8e@gmail.com> <74b83cf9-cd7e-429a-bd9d-0af964e1ddc5@gmail.com> <8634uh5rrq.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23021"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 68687@debbugs.gnu.org, manikulin@gmail.com, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 30 13:53:15 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rUnc2-0005iI-3n for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 13:53:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rUnbm-00070Y-Lo; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:52:59 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rUnbj-0006wk-EM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:52:55 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rUnbi-0005Z6-H5 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:52:55 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rUnbq-0002tD-Fz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:53:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2024 12:53:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68687 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 68687-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68687.170661916811087 (code B ref 68687); Tue, 30 Jan 2024 12:53:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 68687) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jan 2024 12:52:48 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34544 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rUnbb-0002sl-JS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:52:47 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57320) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rUnbY-0002sV-T1 for 68687@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:52:46 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rUnbK-0005Vd-Kz; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:52:30 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=dX9EQsh7cr+aC+dt7Icg1dNx6wo+IucG8mLbBvuqqoE=; b=E+xkaoes2cfV gALNWqGc5nq7NOAU5dIkn5Dedb2SGISym99Ff/xkKVlijFogSu8j4F/CamJoGjGShCSPqDDoRrTbw nF+ZBahJU9LNxWKKFXm3Xx9dSblmmzBovzfQnQATPDqUBlgm5UX26xvqVFq3FILHtRed0MUyL1f09 U8PuYNc3I6ZcaOCBzHk78LTcO74v7S+ky5o49BLENrq64uZPW9jo5ADfteh7jW6ZMit4NsWUIT1U3 yOxBQazNQDxgnYaylA82Z5vVY8tXgWaCpegeU424m6iQs2fNPo0riLCqMculLPlAr3s2uyMmauHY4 T3e045S8xNMsshvJ/5zitA==; In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Mon, 29 Jan 2024 22:56:58 -0500) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:279171 gmane.emacs.orgmode:159442 Archived-At: > From: Richard Stallman > Cc: manikulin@gmail.com, 68687@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, > stefankangas@gmail.com > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2024 22:56:58 -0500 > > I am concerned that the actions described above would tend to embed > Org format and Org mode more deeply into Emacs usage. > > Suppose A and B are Org users. If A knows this, and mails B a message > which contains text labaled as text/org, that won't make anyone > unhappy. No one would have a reason to complain. > > But what if C mails a message to D with text labeled as text/org and D > is not an Org user? Will that cause Emacs to load Org? It should > not. > > What will Gnus do when the user readss a message with text labaled as > text/org? What will Rmail do? What will MH-E do? This happens to me all the time (because our mailing lists are full of such C's, and I'm one example of D), so I know what happens, at least in Rmail: you see the text with Org markup uninterpreted, as plain text. Here's a random example: #+begin_src emacs-lisp (add-hook 'before-save-hook 'time-stamp) (require 'org-refile) (setq org-refile-use-cache t) (setq org-refile-use-outline-path t) (setq org-refile-targets '((nil :maxlevel . 5))) (setq org-goto-interface 'outline-path-completion) (setq large-file-warning-threshold 15000000) (find-file "foo.org") (org-refile-get-targets) #+end_src With Org, the header and footer should be removed from display, and the Lisp code should be displayed with lisp-mode fontifications. What I see is just plain text, including the pesky header and footer. It isn't a catastrophe, IMO. > These are crucial questions because the answers would determine > whether this feature pressures people to use Org mode or not. We need > concrete answers because only that would enable us to see cleary now > whether the feature would do that if in use. In any case, we already have this in the wild, it just uses Content-type that current standards frown on. This proposal is just to use a different, more standard-compliant Content-type. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:303:e224::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms8.migadu.com with LMTPS id cK0WDUHxuGWOPgAAqHPOHw:P1 (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 13:53:21 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:303:e224::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0.migadu.com with LMTPS id cK0WDUHxuGWOPgAAqHPOHw (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 13:53:21 +0100 X-Envelope-To: larch@yhetil.org Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=E+xkaoes; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1706619201; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=dX9EQsh7cr+aC+dt7Icg1dNx6wo+IucG8mLbBvuqqoE=; b=r4TbITtFktN2pl7ucyUusIQmT8VGuhIXm0oZ6gktlyN/+w4ebhnywJvYgwx9m4wUFXgGzJ 4NunfSybLV15LWuegC2ni2VzoT1oCcTcEewCTXwrkgCYtJzrpUPhshhw4C8nvQMWcTYiIu dJaPf5lbSxfPeosTbQdxvb1H2jEZANOpDc3I8vjCiAiQLLkTsy6QSkoqOLwX2WszAgLKQl MQ5EcAWvFUUzwLvKqblYzgT+9po7zPtaUXBwqF1W4NLseS5XL2UiPNcLg8kXuIXBeuKvTQ vsnVwKWyAI6AVd0jHXUTWfr3S76N1aepZtBKoc9HuUihgcPUeDbo5EKTNhSN/g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=E+xkaoes; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1706619201; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=WwIXAhCTqtZ0Y7yRBaDeLK0NshnpU0LeVrbAru1Sp7nJ614HBYJ/+s51+PVJqmZbolIGh2 +zmqfvkqPhoXIZa3yusjUDm1pDk5YDEQL5TtIPXJhfDERt38mgSfJUcl3UhJqGMXdPSxl2 3Aj+h0Mfqrz3dtRKlrVzPbjOvhcByJ60ORQdNqZiwveNo/Xb0y2f/M2Q1CtUyd/IjOfqO2 H3B6+FdETDPri9lC/aeFDDWPHPQXLLyxxVKcII9w/PO7LktI2MZfoROPz6CEIqX0LvrWI9 Run6/5n59yHlZQn9g+mDg+RkBq21tV6AaV4gGl61Z6eNH7K5RZGKNjPfQzYy7g== Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA5143199A for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 13:53:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rUnbQ-0006mm-A7; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:52:36 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rUnbK-0006mN-VP for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:52:33 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rUnbK-0005Vd-Kz; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:52:30 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=dX9EQsh7cr+aC+dt7Icg1dNx6wo+IucG8mLbBvuqqoE=; b=E+xkaoes2cfV gALNWqGc5nq7NOAU5dIkn5Dedb2SGISym99Ff/xkKVlijFogSu8j4F/CamJoGjGShCSPqDDoRrTbw nF+ZBahJU9LNxWKKFXm3Xx9dSblmmzBovzfQnQATPDqUBlgm5UX26xvqVFq3FILHtRed0MUyL1f09 U8PuYNc3I6ZcaOCBzHk78LTcO74v7S+ky5o49BLENrq64uZPW9jo5ADfteh7jW6ZMit4NsWUIT1U3 yOxBQazNQDxgnYaylA82Z5vVY8tXgWaCpegeU424m6iQs2fNPo0riLCqMculLPlAr3s2uyMmauHY4 T3e045S8xNMsshvJ/5zitA==; Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2024 14:52:16 +0200 Message-Id: <86jznr2dbz.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: rms@gnu.org Cc: manikulin@gmail.com, 68687@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Mon, 29 Jan 2024 22:56:58 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#68687: [PATCH] Use text/org media type References: <6d94fff4-4d30-4121-bfd1-f267cb5b637c@gmail.com> <8734uqpvgn.fsf@tec.tecosaur.net> <49fa47c0-522a-46d7-ba0d-6e688aa26a8e@gmail.com> <74b83cf9-cd7e-429a-bd9d-0af964e1ddc5@gmail.com> <8634uh5rrq.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -8.64 X-Spam-Score: -8.64 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: CA5143199A X-Migadu-Scanner: mx12.migadu.com X-TUID: PSOK9SfopPoO > From: Richard Stallman > Cc: manikulin@gmail.com, 68687@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, > stefankangas@gmail.com > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2024 22:56:58 -0500 > > I am concerned that the actions described above would tend to embed > Org format and Org mode more deeply into Emacs usage. > > Suppose A and B are Org users. If A knows this, and mails B a message > which contains text labaled as text/org, that won't make anyone > unhappy. No one would have a reason to complain. > > But what if C mails a message to D with text labeled as text/org and D > is not an Org user? Will that cause Emacs to load Org? It should > not. > > What will Gnus do when the user readss a message with text labaled as > text/org? What will Rmail do? What will MH-E do? This happens to me all the time (because our mailing lists are full of such C's, and I'm one example of D), so I know what happens, at least in Rmail: you see the text with Org markup uninterpreted, as plain text. Here's a random example: #+begin_src emacs-lisp (add-hook 'before-save-hook 'time-stamp) (require 'org-refile) (setq org-refile-use-cache t) (setq org-refile-use-outline-path t) (setq org-refile-targets '((nil :maxlevel . 5))) (setq org-goto-interface 'outline-path-completion) (setq large-file-warning-threshold 15000000) (find-file "foo.org") (org-refile-get-targets) #+end_src With Org, the header and footer should be removed from display, and the Lisp code should be displayed with lisp-mode fontifications. What I see is just plain text, including the pesky header and footer. It isn't a catastrophe, IMO. > These are crucial questions because the answers would determine > whether this feature pressures people to use Org mode or not. We need > concrete answers because only that would enable us to see cleary now > whether the feature would do that if in use. In any case, we already have this in the wild, it just uses Content-type that current standards frown on. This proposal is just to use a different, more standard-compliant Content-type.