From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#68732: 29.1; shell-command-default-error-buffer is not interactive Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 18:19:19 +0200 Message-ID: <86il3g9iew.fsf@gnu.org> References: <170dfb3d-21c9-4992-8933-c840f89e91d0@email.android.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31279"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 68732@debbugs.gnu.org To: Krzysztof =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=BBelechowski?= Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 26 17:20:16 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rTOwB-0007pA-2c for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2024 17:20:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rTOvs-0007Sz-J9; Fri, 26 Jan 2024 11:19:56 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rTOvr-0007Sr-Qb for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2024 11:19:55 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rTOvr-0008SQ-I2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2024 11:19:55 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTOvy-0002Yy-3B for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2024 11:20:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 16:20:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68732 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug Original-Received: via spool by 68732-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68732.17062859789808 (code B ref 68732); Fri, 26 Jan 2024 16:20:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 68732) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jan 2024 16:19:38 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52521 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTOvZ-0002Y8-HK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2024 11:19:37 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54736) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTOvX-0002Xw-7r for 68732@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2024 11:19:36 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rTOvJ-0008Pm-SZ; Fri, 26 Jan 2024 11:19:21 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=fgxYWvbQ9EGE5WxnFe55p3X6YsQNAF3zm1HIDjxMO8g=; b=P9G5/iatyMv8NyoY9VNr 1LqcjzpQNFVbWteGJTT7jpjhmoqFfSh2S36EY2zFZvbvSzs8lX/RGplsWjOoryW5sy33gNF8i490x 0ki7vx2sNRCxB1Dt5BH03ZKorxuOp1/fBB46RTOWGdpIA4COl4a2RkU94Uzn+70HDd6HN1eBVIRWU UFup8xFq+EA6cJoZQX/T83xpxG9gCmlZ5SyzJw8WLeCTb3RZBkdPRh3QMhyDqXnU9RJDyibRUx/3i 54s1z7RWmAFmqh0wdYrArBeHo6PAqEVfGprYx/b4QWAY5GeeYq4uqL9hjT8oTXLG9XJ3d9NAwyQ6u 82Z8KC8LlqaWYg==; In-Reply-To: <170dfb3d-21c9-4992-8933-c840f89e91d0@email.android.com> (message from Krzysztof =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=BBelechowski?= on Fri, 26 Jan 2024 16:16:21 +0100) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:278939 Archived-At: > Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 16:16:21 +0100 > From: Krzysztof Żelechowski > Cc: 68732@debbugs.gnu.org > > The point is, the function shell-command does not use this variable because it only affects interactive > use. So indeed, writing a command that invokes shell-command is an option, but it does make a use > case for the existence of this variable. > > My POV is splitting standard output and standard error (maybe on demand) is a basic usability > requirement and should not require writing custom commands. > > The problem is not with using setq by users, it is with getting non-developers to write and execute > Lisp scripts to accomplish basic tasks, including scripts that just invoke setq. The latter obviously is > not a problem when you are a scientist, but I imagine that the front end would be much cleaner if > operable cleanly without scripting (again, this concept limited to basic tasks obviously). We cannot possibly make every variable a defcustom, just because someone somewhere will need to set a variable while not being a programmer, can we? So, while I understand your motivation, it still doesn't convince me to make the variable a user option. Splitting stdout and stderr might be a basic usability requirement in your eyes, but IME users rarely send stderr to a separate place, which is why this variable is not a defcustom.