From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Andrea Corallo <acorallo@gnu.org>
Cc: pipcet@protonmail.com, stefankangas@gmail.com, mattiase@acm.org,
eggert@cs.ucla.edu, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: New "make benchmark" target
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2025 16:46:15 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <86ikqs57bc.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <yp1bjwk5gph.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (message from Andrea Corallo on Mon, 06 Jan 2025 06:23:22 -0500)
> From: Andrea Corallo <acorallo@gnu.org>
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, stefankangas@gmail.com,
> mattiase@acm.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2025 06:23:22 -0500
>
> Pip Cet <pipcet@protonmail.com> writes:
>
> > In particular, as you (Andrea) correctly pointed out, it is sometimes
> > appropriate to use an average run time (or, non-equivalently, an average
> > speed) for reporting test results; the assumptions needed for this are
> > very significant and need to be spelled out explicitly. The vast
> > majority of "make benchmark" uses which I think should happen cannot
> > meet these stringent requirements.
> >
> > To put things simply, it is better to discard outliers (test runs which
> > take significantly longer than the rest). Averaging doesn't do that: it
> > simply ruins your entire test run if there is a significant outlier.
> > IOW, running the benchmarks with a large repetition count is very likely
> > to result in useful data being discarded, and a useless result.
>
> As mentioned, I disagree with having some logic put in place to
> arbitrarily decide which value is worth to be considered and which value
> should be discarded. If a system is producing noisy measures this has
> to be reported as error of the measure. Those numbers are there for
> some real reason and have to be accounted.
Without too deep understanding of the underlying issue: IME, if some
sample can include outliers, it is always better to use robust
estimators, rather than attempt to detect and discard outliers.
That's because detection of outliers can decide that a valid
measurement is an outlier, and then the estimation becomes biased.
In practical terms, for estimating the mean, I can suggest to use the
sample median instead of the sample average. The median is very
robust to outliers, and only slightly less efficient (i.e., converges
a bit slower) than the sample average.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2025-01-06 14:46 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 58+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2024-12-11 22:37 Improving EQ Pip Cet via Emacs development discussions.
2024-12-12 6:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-12 8:23 ` Andrea Corallo
2024-12-12 8:36 ` Pip Cet via Emacs development discussions.
2024-12-12 9:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-12 9:35 ` Visuwesh
2024-12-12 10:40 ` Andrea Corallo
2024-12-12 17:46 ` Pip Cet via Emacs development discussions.
2024-12-12 19:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-12 10:53 ` New "make benchmark" target Stefan Kangas
2024-12-12 10:59 ` Andrea Corallo
2024-12-12 16:53 ` Pip Cet via Emacs development discussions.
2024-12-13 0:49 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-12-13 7:37 ` Andrea Corallo
2024-12-14 12:00 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-12-14 14:06 ` Stefan Monnier
2024-12-14 11:34 ` Pip Cet via Emacs development discussions.
2024-12-14 11:58 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-12-14 20:07 ` Pip Cet via Emacs development discussions.
2024-12-14 20:20 ` João Távora
2024-12-15 0:57 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-12-22 16:04 ` Pip Cet via Emacs development discussions.
2024-12-29 10:47 ` Andrea Corallo
2024-12-30 11:45 ` Pip Cet via Emacs development discussions.
2024-12-30 14:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-30 15:00 ` Pip Cet via Emacs development discussions.
2024-12-30 15:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-30 15:49 ` Pip Cet via Emacs development discussions.
2024-12-30 15:53 ` João Távora
2024-12-30 16:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-30 17:25 ` Pip Cet via Emacs development discussions.
2024-12-30 18:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-31 4:00 ` Pip Cet via Emacs development discussions.
2024-12-31 5:26 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-12-31 13:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-31 14:14 ` Pip Cet via Emacs development discussions.
2024-12-31 14:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-31 12:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-31 14:34 ` Andrea Corallo
2024-12-30 18:26 ` Andrea Corallo
2024-12-30 18:58 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-12-30 21:34 ` Pip Cet via Emacs development discussions.
2024-12-31 9:55 ` Andrea Corallo
2024-12-31 12:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-31 14:01 ` Pip Cet via Emacs development discussions.
2025-01-04 16:34 ` Pip Cet via Emacs development discussions.
2025-01-04 18:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2025-01-05 10:18 ` Pip Cet via Emacs development discussions.
2025-01-06 11:23 ` Andrea Corallo
2025-01-06 14:46 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2025-01-06 18:41 ` Andrea Corallo
2024-12-15 0:58 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-12-12 10:42 ` Improving EQ Óscar Fuentes
2024-12-12 10:50 ` Andrea Corallo
2024-12-12 11:21 ` Óscar Fuentes
2024-12-13 12:24 ` Pip Cet via Emacs development discussions.
2024-12-12 17:05 ` Pip Cet via Emacs development discussions.
2024-12-12 18:10 ` John ff
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