From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: guided tour suggestions Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:36:58 +0200 Message-ID: <86hcosxyol.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> References: <87645ai4cl.fsf@phil.mit.edu> <85d4zi6jdo.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <874pksef39.fsf@phil.mit.edu> <18051.28495.761758.288770@kahikatea.snap.net.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1183019831 7813 80.91.229.12 (28 Jun 2007 08:37:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 08:37:11 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Phil Sung , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Nick Roberts Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 28 10:37:09 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1I3pUw-0000pP-Pa for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:37:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I3pUw-0006b3-9h for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 28 Jun 2007 04:37:06 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1I3pUs-0006Zv-3o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Jun 2007 04:37:02 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1I3pUq-0006YZ-Oz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Jun 2007 04:37:01 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I3pUq-0006YW-Jm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Jun 2007 04:37:00 -0400 Original-Received: from pc3.berlin.powerweb.de ([62.67.228.11]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1I3pUp-0005Ns-Kb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Jun 2007 04:37:00 -0400 Original-Received: from quinscape.de (dslnet.212-29-44.ip210.dokom.de [212.29.44.210] (may be forged)) by pc3.berlin.powerweb.de (8.9.3p3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA32594 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:36:57 +0200 X-Delivered-To: Original-Received: (qmail 10630 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2007 08:36:58 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (HELO lola.quinscape.zz) ([10.0.3.43]) (envelope-sender ) by ns.quinscape.de (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 28 Jun 2007 08:36:58 -0000 Original-Received: by lola.quinscape.zz (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 66C4C8F832; Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:36:58 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <18051.28495.761758.288770@kahikatea.snap.net.nz> (Nick Roberts's message of "Thu\, 28 Jun 2007 20\:20\:31 +1200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/23.0.51 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:73976 Archived-At: Nick Roberts writes: > > > Would it be possible to make the screenshots with emacs -Q so > > > that people see what they get out of the box ... ? > > > > Good idea. > > > > > The guided tour ... shows an Emacs a) compiled without a modern > > > toolkit (Gtk+, Windows or Mac) b) without menus c) without > > > toolbars d) without scrollbars (for heaven's sake!) e) without > > > font diversity. The only thing hinting at fonts is a man-page > > > f) without file dialogs g) without tooltips h) without any > > > non-ASCII character > > > > When I get a chance, I will make some screenshots with the > > default UI setup, and with more complex formatting/characters. > > Remember, however, that GTK is _not_ the default toolkit for Emacs > 22.1 so that won't be what people see out of the box. Depends on the box. I should hope that at least GNOME-centric distributions with X11 would offer the Gtk+ version (Debian offers a choice IIRC of what to install). Anyway, if we wanted to go for "most common case", we would need to show a Windows Emacs. That is not really what we want, either (though a single screenshot for each of the major platforms for comparison would perhaps be nice: I find that Emacs' visual integration into various desktops is a selling point against XEmacs which shows quite the same quaint look everywhere), but I suppose it pretty much depends on who is going to spend the effort of creating the screenshots. > Currently it won't be the default for Emacs 22.2 either. I think there is still a difference between using configure without options, and using no run-time options. However, I would also consider my compilation (using --without-toolkit-scroll-bars since anything but Athena toolkit semantics is somewhat dysfunctional) unfit for screen shots since it uses _special_ configure options resulting in a look that won't likely be available "out of the box" for _any_ distribution. It would be too complicated explaining that my look does not result from a deficiency of Emacs, but a deficiency of Gtk+ and my way around it (with a little bit of help from Emacs). -- David Kastrup