From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#70402: 29.3; Error in "(emacs)Package Installation" description. Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 16:04:28 +0300 Message-ID: <86h6ft5z1f.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87bk6ao3cy.fsf@gmail.com> <86mspujupa.fsf@gnu.org> <87le5caujd.fsf@gmail.com> <87y195tw2k.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="29047"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: tpeplt@gmail.com, 70402@debbugs.gnu.org To: Philip Kaludercic , Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 22 15:06:02 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rytMw-0007I8-5b for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 15:06:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rytMj-0002Dj-7T; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 09:05:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rytMg-0002DT-Ps for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 09:05:46 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rytMg-0000yf-F1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 09:05:46 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rytMw-0000Jw-B3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 09:06:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 13:06:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 70402 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 70402-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B70402.1713791104954 (code B ref 70402); Mon, 22 Apr 2024 13:06:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 70402) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Apr 2024 13:05:04 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45950 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rytLw-0000Ec-OH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 09:05:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60760) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rytLq-0000Dw-Un for 70402@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 09:04:59 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rytLU-0000Uv-FF; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 09:04:32 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=jGp0uSA1KDRE6xD2fWpEDSsLVYvKL58Nr7hEq/J1dMQ=; b=ltWtEeBWondgPxnUOCnd 6UAdVq8P0Rn/CfQy5GiNo4e3MbCgoJdjcFlmvAYrJuvPDtmbPPByRnZQEvuZR753NJ0O1aMWFc/YZ NaOpHxdW0cCU3ZpvpxfTG8ZZRF4gswMkmwISu5F2jJvaC86WLW5p4w7549bdy0M5jUlHhw7skSrCw JI9VPF7SaEYlzICIweisIbGnj3sksEMu83eowqby6x/8tNekaQDF202/EuDA/5EON9ZSrwQcrOuDB bQvpgE8QV3L3tGDzmFnmRfsrB4Mbg0tt7xPOz2lOskYA++J+JGLJS1eCZwbSF9Al9556NbhOebnqm fBde4z9nJVRqcg==; In-Reply-To: <87y195tw2k.fsf@posteo.net> (message from Philip Kaludercic on Mon, 22 Apr 2024 12:34:43 +0000) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:283826 Archived-At: > From: Philip Kaludercic > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 70402@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 12:34:43 +0000 > > tpeplt writes: > > >>> The final sentence in this paragraph says that > >>> ‘package-enable-at-startup’ cannot be set via Customize, but it is > >>> possible in Emacs 29.3 to set that variable via Customize. Type the > >>> following: > >>> > >>> M-x customize-option RET > >>> Customize variable: package-enable-at-startup RET > >>> > >>> After this sequence, the buffer "*Customize Option: Package Enable At > >>> Startup*" is displayed, which according to the Emacs user manual should > >>> not be possible. > > > >> > >> I think you misunderstand what the manual attempts to convey: that > >> customizing this variable will not have the desired effect, because it > >> must be set before reading the init file. > > > > If I understand you correctly, then there are two reasons, rather than > > one, for why the variable ‘package-enable-at-startup’ should not be an > > (customizable) option: > > > > 1. Because the Emacs user manual says that it cannot be set (it can). > > > > 2. Because setting the variable via ‘customize-option’ has no effect (it > > happens too late in the initialization sequence?). > > > > If the user manual says that "something" cannot be done and doing so > > anyway would have no effect, then it should not be possible to do that > > "something." > > When in doubt, "cannot" for Emacs usually means "will not do what you > want it to" instead of "it is not possible to", or that is at least how > I read the sentence here. That being said, I guess the manual could be > clarified, or one could revert `package-enable-at-startup' to a regular > variable? I am not sure what the policy on the last point is. Stefan, any suggestions?