From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: pdumper on Solaris 10 Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2024 16:39:36 +0200 Message-ID: <86h67bbo0n.fsf@gnu.org> References: <878qwuitbu.fsf@yahoo.com> <87jzcajrnz.fsf@protonmail.com> <86o71mfhox.fsf@gnu.org> <87frmyjn9j.fsf@protonmail.com> <86ldwqfcqv.fsf@gnu.org> <87a5d6jgim.fsf@protonmail.com> <86a5d6f7bn.fsf@gnu.org> <871pyijctd.fsf@protonmail.com> <8634iyf257.fsf@gnu.org> <8634iwex8q.fsf@gnu.org> <86wmg7bso1.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyhzmzbp.fsf@telefonica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8830"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3scar?= Fuentes Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 10 15:40:30 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tL1PZ-000288-Ko for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 10 Dec 2024 15:40:29 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tL1Ot-0000L6-HT; Tue, 10 Dec 2024 09:39:47 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tL1Os-0000Kw-NL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Dec 2024 09:39:46 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tL1Or-00039g-RV; Tue, 10 Dec 2024 09:39:45 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=R+HFoue47xgsFKjfdpDskS/f2ncudHyrfmSMRYnzcOI=; b=lB9N5INAG+iEL/rqCQf6 j6h/TU9hSMrFcoZ+fynltY46BjAgIERZcS+dVtKGRSbQWH6Gwb0qIDvnwnR4An3jCRT5eq+AlkLp9 SFDC6UPaPAKmCR1D06qEYweiD42r6VvcRJD8LaXHiiUPmYwUBuqv6pnXmV0eh7SLjWXU6Tfc+NMCB MMfZnuWlTtwNr74M2ehWJrFIolW8kimAndgYLJQQ9EtpUrZbgvHZQzZuUVrvlG/QYg2dqlYlFZ9gT dtvKTsXODtEdUZy5bcJM4pziwwfLb7N+VpABQDWiqpHF603cyhzr9u7C42YX5uMvX6jvASuN7eZ68 pD+mf7VbpKle0g==; In-Reply-To: <87cyhzmzbp.fsf@telefonica.net> (message from =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3scar?= Fuentes on Tue, 10 Dec 2024 14:39:54 +0100) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:326290 Archived-At: > From: Óscar Fuentes > Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2024 14:39:54 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > Maybe so, but why is such a long wait a problem? GC _works_, and > > works well. > > Working on certain projects with lsp-mode is a miserable experience due > to all the random pauses. And the changes discussed in this sub-thread will make it spectacularly faster? > My perception of the past week or two using igc is that those pauses are > much less jarring, if perceptible at all. I need more time to make a > definitive judgment, though. I was not talking about igc, and its advantages are clear to me. That's not what this sub-thread is about. > As code edition evolves and Emacs is put on more demanding tasks the > limitations of GC become more obvious (and CPUs are not getting faster > anymore). > > Apart from that, I'm convinced that there is quite a bit of evolutionary > pressure exerted by GC on the Elisp package ecosystem: something that > works too slowly or is too bumpy does not atract users and die. Others > may end devoting a lot of effort to optimize GC usage and when they > finally work "well enough" (for some generous interpretation) most > potential users already made their mind (flx.el is a paradigmatic case) > or the package author simply stops working on it, sometimes without > making the first release. > > GC also diminishes the benefits of native-comp and other performance > enhancements: no matter how fast you make your Elisp execution engine, > the time taken by GC stablishes a hard limit. > > But the "stop the world" mode of GC operation makes user experience > quite worse even if the total time to perform a task is smaller. All correct, but completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.