From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Alain Schneble Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: feature/integrated-elpa 4f6df43 15/23: README added Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 20:51:30 +0200 Message-ID: <86funsqij1.fsf@realize.ch> References: <20160916203414.25203.87032@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <83d1j33qgg.fsf@gnu.org> <87wph96cto.fsf@russet.org.uk> <831szh3iq4.fsf@gnu.org> <87mvi5spl9.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <83mvi51y3b.fsf@gnu.org> <87instslxu.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83inst1vut.fsf@gnu.org> <87eg3ekjz2.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83vawpx677.fsf@gnu.org> <87h989ixxd.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83mvi1ww6m.fsf@gnu.org> <87wph5fw0w.fsf@russet.org.uk> <838ttlwodt.fsf@gnu.org> <878ttl3342.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <8360opwjs2.fsf@gnu.org> <8760oosrn8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83shrsvj3g.fsf@gnu.org> <87k2d46vqe.fsf@Rainer.invalid> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1476903137 888 195.159.176.226 (19 Oct 2016 18:52:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 18:52:17 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (windows-nt) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Achim Gratz Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 19 20:52:13 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bwvy9-0007Dq-OV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 20:52:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50449 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwvyB-0005Bn-TL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 14:52:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47925) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwvy2-0005BX-94 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 14:51:59 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwvxx-0002Ac-K7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 14:51:58 -0400 Original-Received: from clientmail.realize.ch ([46.140.89.53]:4877) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwvxx-00029k-7h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 14:51:53 -0400 Original-Received: from rintintin.hq.realize.ch.lan.rit (Unknown [192.168.0.105]) by clientmail.realize.ch with ESMTP ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 20:51:36 +0200 Original-Received: from myngb (192.168.66.64) by rintintin.hq.realize.ch.lan.rit (192.168.0.105) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.516.32; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 20:51:30 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87k2d46vqe.fsf@Rainer.invalid> (Achim Gratz's message of "Wed, 19 Oct 2016 20:26:33 +0200") X-ClientProxiedBy: rintintin.hq.realize.ch.lan.rit (192.168.0.105) To rintintin.hq.realize.ch.lan.rit (192.168.0.105) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Windows NT kernel [generic] X-Received-From: 46.140.89.53 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:208488 Archived-At: Achim Gratz writes: > Eli Zaretskii writes: >> I don't see why restarting won't be a solution. If load-path was >> re-arranged to put the latest version of a package first, and the >> package's autoloads are on a file that has been regenerated, what else >> is missing to make restart the correct solution? > > You are missing that the order in which all these things happen becomes > important. The newer autoload can only shadow the old one if it's > processed _before_, likewise initializing other Emacs packages might > inadvertently pull in old autoloads or definitions before things have > been rearranged by package.el. This is not hypothetical, all of that > has already happened and users have suffered from it. When they report > the resulting symptoms it is extremely difficult to tease out what > exactly happened, in which order and why, so it also wastes the time of > those folks who want to help them. Of course. The order of directories in load path is always relevant. Whatever structure we choose. >> I think making such a change incrementally is worse than doing it at >> once, as far as the directory structure is concerned. We don't want >> to change the directory structure several times, ideally not even >> once. But if some change is required, it should be done in one go, so >> we need to decide on the structure up front. > > I've said it before and I will say it again just this one time: If Emacs > takes packetization of the core seriously, then the "hard core" should > contain just the stuff that is needed for bootstrapping Emacs. That has nothing to do with the directory layout. This is possible if we keep the ./lisp directory layout. > Everything else should be a package. Single-file packages would live in > one directory together, and multi-file packages would be in their own > directory each. That will be more or less what will be mostly the case if we keep the ./lisp directory layout. Alain