From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: ESC vs Meta for shifted keys Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2018 03:06:09 +0200 Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Message-ID: <86fu3x6zy6.fsf@zoho.com> References: <86tvsiaoe3.fsf@zoho.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1523754509 30415 195.159.176.226 (15 Apr 2018 01:08:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:08:29 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 15 03:08:25 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f7W9Z-0007ny-5J for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2018 03:08:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53140 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f7WBd-0005rn-U9 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2018 21:10:33 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 78 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: ey7daRps1n1jd+mMaOEjpw.user.gioia.aioe.org Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org Mail-Copies-To: never X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.3 Cancel-Lock: sha1:cgXRAgDw/1/k2ehjx7oa46kTUWk= Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:222398 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:116516 Archived-At: Bob Proulx wrote: > I use both interchangeably all of the time. > And so does anyone using an XTerm with "Meta > sends ESC" configured even if they never hit > the ESC key themselves. Because there is no > character sent for a meta key event, just > escape sequences for the subsequent key. > Therefore Meta with that setting on XTerm > sends ESC and it all works mostly seemlessly. Yes, but that's more of an issue with the terminal emulator. I mean use Escape instead of Meta in the physical, keyboard sense. xterm*metaSendsEscape: true Here is how to disable caps and do something else with it in X: setxkbmap -option caps:none # disable caps lock xmodmap -e 'keycode 66=a' # rebind CAPS (66) > I think you mean more sense to use meta-key > using such keyboards? Because it certainly > makes sense to use Alt-f for example for M-f > forward-word and the rest of the meta > characters. Current popular keyboards all > have an Alt key. Right, it is a good pick for Meta. > The symbolics keyboard actually had > a *different* arrow set than has become > standard. The current "standard" comes from > the ADM-3a. > > https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/lear-siegler-adm3a-terminal-keyboard-t11780.html The current standard for what? The Escape key on that keyboard isn't current, it is much closer which is probably why it was more popular for this purpose on those keyboards. The arrow set (h, j, k, l) is close to there right hand, but somewhat unintuitive with ups and downs, or at least not as intuitive as it could be. I think the arrow keys are best placed as: i = up j = left k = down l = right My first computer was a Mac Plus and the games there, like Lode Runner, this was used - for Dark Castle it was correspondingly w, a, s, d because with the right hand, one aimed the rock throwing arm with the mouse. This reappeared much later in 3D games such as Quake btw. Anyway I think the i, j, k, l set is the best at is is close and intuitive. In many applications, e.g. for viewing images and PDF documents, I have implemented it, and in Emacs I use it for Emacs-w3m, scrolling [1], and so on. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-cadet_keyboard Ha! I can't see anything on that photo. Where are the Escape and arrow keys?! [1] http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/emacs-init/scroll.el -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573