From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: My resignation from Emacs development Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2024 10:32:27 +0200 Message-ID: <86frnjoehw.fsf@gnu.org> References: <86frnkpujt.fsf@gnu.org> <87frnki1b2.fsf@yahoo.com> <86plmnoim2.fsf@gnu.org> <87o727wups.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23761"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, ams@gnu.org, acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Robert Pluim Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 22 09:33:15 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tEP6I-0005zI-Sx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2024 09:33:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tEP5d-0002mS-NF; Fri, 22 Nov 2024 03:32:33 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tEP5c-0002m5-AV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2024 03:32:32 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tEP5b-000195-GQ; Fri, 22 Nov 2024 03:32:31 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=8y9L182WL4hnI1ULvN3REDV/szvVDOegjczZcoffLE4=; b=Zgj8jo47xea2KakP6P7l E1iB92AIfhpFSCDhQc2oAUFDhgAKvxRGky7FF5+hO3lJMPTrIgiqA3YpxhjgbBfrtHYxQD3z1JEhX wqdmrnkRts3JkYyVqJo8BUMdBjGchamY+C25+7lacqHKeSj0oJk1t5Yaa3ujDhD+f1D4fitQ1QMG/ oTYzOtU8QStsOdVSw0Zzb8C8sYrJA58EJhsS0L5+KuoXc+vg24VPhNoPOHkDRuqh2F+2oP3vpUiB9 MQy14WJ41oy1QWkhoyhGj54Su7KNww3G7K4eqg2VG5UGP6WM90PPOC8o+05OmB6cOjRmrV9J0SAxg QWdlUeuNT9KmNw==; In-Reply-To: <87o727wups.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Robert Pluim on Fri, 22 Nov 2024 09:14:55 +0100) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:325578 Archived-At: > From: Robert Pluim > Cc: Po Lu , ams@gnu.org, acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2024 09:14:55 +0100 > > >>>>> On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 09:03:33 +0200, Eli Zaretskii said: > >> Yes, there has lately appeared a ``relentless modernization drive'', if > >> you will. Most of these changes are not worth the controversy they > >> create. > > Eli> Given that many community members seem to think our current approach > Eli> is actually too conservative and prevents faster progress, I guess the > Eli> reality is somewhere in the middle, probably quite farther from that > Eli> "relentless modernization" than you seem to imply. > > I suspect that Po Lu (and Alan) were talking more about the increase > in the use of cl and pcase (which I still havenʼt got my head around, > and now we already have cond* as well). The increase in their use is real, but we don't allow it without careful consideration. In particular, they should not be used where simpler constructs can reasonably do the job. Other than that, this is a community project. People must understand that the maintainers are just stewards; we don't "own" the project, and thus have no moral right to stubbornly oppose de-facto coding practices that are overwhelmingly favored by the community (including at least some of the maintainers, judging by their code). Any demands that we forbid use of cl-lib or pcase in Emacs are thus unfair at best.