From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christoph Scholtes Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Fundamental mode vs. special mode Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 08:58:15 -0600 Message-ID: <86ehy3hi0o.fsf@googlemail.com> References: <86sjmkvl80.fsf@googlemail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1319381914 27945 80.91.229.12 (23 Oct 2011 14:58:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 14:58:34 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Chong Yidong Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 23 16:58:29 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RHzVK-0001Bs-G8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 16:58:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58830 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RHzVJ-0007PI-LJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 10:58:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:49190) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RHzVG-0007P1-VT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 10:58:23 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RHzVF-00011K-1a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 10:58:22 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-gy0-f169.google.com ([209.85.160.169]:38233) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RHzVE-00011E-JM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 10:58:20 -0400 Original-Received: by gyf3 with SMTP id 3so6041998gyf.0 for ; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 07:58:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version:content-type; bh=ss7qnsHUyK9954mdYgKViyH3aSWR33ZBLefWCW0mB9g=; b=EIVAuR19kyZljVmKkKCrSdqrjPQADqd3+ukbKDa6ia5a4o3TakwyR13qkV0nBUb1rU Ej7G9nff7pR0Tb7LrtEPk2g6XxM5mhMdQG7ZrUvsqaRy0aNj1H9dlWaVOKnhKqqg2ulo Cz8gdQ11M95qZeyMoppXmGOrShIZQHNpYp6Nw= Original-Received: by 10.236.174.106 with SMTP id w70mr9381537yhl.54.1319381899669; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 07:58:19 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from MARVIN (71-212-145-34.hlrn.qwest.net. [71.212.145.34]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d32sm26159667yhj.17.2011.10.23.07.58.17 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 23 Oct 2011 07:58:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Chong Yidong's message of "Sun, 23 Oct 2011 03:21:27 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.90 (windows-nt) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 209.85.160.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:145435 Archived-At: Chong Yidong writes: > It's not a good idea to add anything to Fundamental mode. The point of > it is to be fundamental. OK. > Anyway, binding "q" to `quit-window' is no good; I imagine some users > expect want to be able to edit the buffer. Same with other cases like > the *Messages* buffer. OK. I guess to me a buffer like *Shell Mode Output* is a read-only buffer, hence `special'. If I want to edit the output of a shell command I can always create buffer and insert the output into it with M-1 M-!. That's what I would have to do in a shell outside Emacs, no? On the other hand, I can see how someone might think the current behavior is an advantage. As a user, I feel like buffers Emacs creates, which show some kind of status information (logs, shell output etc.), I should be able to read and acknowledge (e.g. with `q') like other `special' buffers. It feels like quite often I have to think about what the correct command is for this buffer, where I feel it should be more natural from a UI point of view. But then again, maybe I just have spent too much time in the non-free world with its UI paradigms. ;) Christoph