From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Filipp Gunbin Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs keyboard Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2013 07:51:12 +0400 Message-ID: <86ehhz7yvj.fsf@w2139spb.ru.yotateam.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1357444274 4954 80.91.229.3 (6 Jan 2013 03:51:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 03:51:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: dkcombs@panix.com (David Combs) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 06 04:51:31 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TrhGk-0001NH-Ao for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 04:51:30 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38948 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TrhGU-0005mb-Sd for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2013 22:51:14 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60773) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TrhGO-0005mV-Tn for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2013 22:51:09 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TrhGN-0005KU-Lj for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2013 22:51:08 -0500 Original-Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.28]:34586) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TrhGN-0005KN-Dx for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2013 22:51:07 -0500 Original-Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.42]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9685B207A3; Sat, 5 Jan 2013 22:51:05 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from frontend2.nyi.mail.srv.osa ([10.202.2.161]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 05 Jan 2013 22:51:05 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-type; s=mesmtp; bh=g+QJyxp09SP67hXHy3jdWQA 3gwo=; b=GtgUUKjDm3DpNgYxmteWT8k0X/sKs5+JzHB0reS9Vf07IzD6SEyq0IO OLK4EKROGic7f6uNSRMJso3alI+3QpFw4vlb2yL8tMgl4HwyX6gjfjcdQwQAigFc c+Z6z7OHqKro3jqsbPSUdEOw0SNqcoqFmCqBlzv03UM+Yrs1QUKQ= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=smtpout; bh=g+QJyxp09SP67hXHy3jdWQA3gwo=; b=a+UdQe9bwvDllyATbil85uJey/8i IOmoaSRS6k6r5tZGQY/SKQa4NamIykCLh6oeHnSk78R01C1ym+EYkA5d0hEgjFWC guHqzcSCWBmb/yqseo/KixPK0cXbpnKgaZIPxMcc2WjWP5YGbtTzWy54quITZV/e Bv/WCqo+Nled6+E= X-Sasl-enc: dC2Lsb/HaFrvJzX/vyKb6CIdz8zEtZlFpLXc7q7NVXmv 1357444265 Original-Received: from w2139spb.ru.yotateam.com (unknown [94.25.229.124]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C5821482571; Sat, 5 Jan 2013 22:51:04 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: (David Combs's message of "Sat, 5 Jan 2013 00:33:58 +0000 (UTC)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.1299999999999999 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2 (cygwin) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 66.111.4.28 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:88477 Archived-At: On 05/01/2013 04:33, David Combs wrote: > I find that standard keyboards, with the control-key down at the > bottom, a real pain to use with emacs, vi, and any other program > that uses control-chars as commands. > > Sun (er, oracle) makes that type of keyboard, but > also makes one with the control key immediately left > of the "A" key, where it was on the original > teletype-like machine (name escapes me now, but it > ended in "33"). > > That placement sure makes it easier to use programs > like emacs and vi. > > David But, with control in the home row you lose symmetry. I find it most convenient to press all modifiers with one hand and the actual key with another. That would not be possible with one control in all cases. And with chords consisting only of Control, Alt and Shift, it's much less pain to have Control at the bottom... Control in the home row is best for simple keys like `C-f', but what to do with `C-M-t', for example? -- Filipp Gunbin