From: Alain Schneble <a.s@realize.ch>
To: Phillip Lord <phillip.lord@russet.org.uk>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, Stromeko@nexgo.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: feature/integrated-elpa 4f6df43 15/23: README added
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 11:42:50 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <86d1iv5pb9.fsf@realize.ch> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87wph4t1a3.fsf@russet.org.uk> (Phillip Lord's message of "Wed, 19 Oct 2016 23:35:48 +0100")
phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:
> Alain Schneble <a.s@realize.ch> writes:
>
>> Indeed. But in case a package offers a public feature/interface to be
>> used by anybody, including non-package code, such an explicit handling
>> would be TRTTD, IMO.
>
> Yes, I think that is true. I don't think that there is explicit support
> for this form of deprecation in Emacs at the moment. We should write a
> package and add it to ELPA!
Good idea. Why not. I just doubt that many packages will ever require
this.
>>> Just removing "food-package-1.0" from `load-path` gives a less nice
>>> error message, but it still fails fast, and requires no developer
>>> support
>>
>> True. But I don't think we have to account for all possible "misuses"
>> and bugs. We all run into issues. But we have to try to not get biased
>> by a specific problem one once had and which might have taken hours to
>> fix
>
> I try not to. It's just a problem that packages in core having when
> upgrading from ELPA. It's a clear, specific. I've had it, true, and it
> took me a lot of time to work out, but as Achim says so have other people.
Ok.
>> And I think this discussion has nothing to do with the directory layout.
>> It's a different topic IMO, though you try to fix it with the directory
>> layout.
>
> It is a problem that a package.el based solution would not have, and
> which it achieves through in a simple and straight-forward way, though
> it's use of it's directory layout.
Alright. But look, no one prevents us from removing the old version
from load-path, for packages that have their own directory. Large
packages happen to have their own directory anyway. For single file
packages, the issue is non-existent, as renaming such a file is not
really a use case as it would essentially introduce a new package
(name). And then there may be a bunch of (smaller) multi-file packages
that could run into such a "deleted-file-issue". But keep in mind that
all bundled core/tarball packages are from a trusted source and we can
circumvent or fix these problems (in the worst case with explicit
mechanism we have discussed). It's in Emacs control.
So I think that legitimating a separate directory for each structure
using this edge case sounds like nit-picking.
> Personally, I consider the directory layout to be a side issue -- direct
> use of package.el is the main issue. It's there, Emacs already supports
> in for packages in ~/.emacs.d, and in site lisp, it's already plumbed
> into startup and all the files in ELPA are already built with package.el
> in mind.
It's there and we fortunately can extend it.
> To me using it is a slam dunk, as our friends over the pond like to say.
> I am not at all surprised that people objected to my idea of introducing
> a new top level directory is contentious -- that is why I asked the
> question in the first place; I am a little surprised at the objections
> to a per-package directory structure for these packages. So far, I have
> only understood two objections: Drew's and Stefan's. Why would it be a
> problem?
IMHO, trying to implement the simplest possible file structure and not
introducing a new one but reusing the existing one, are reasons enough.
Also, having a dual directory layout in released Emacs tarballs doesn't
feel good to me. And to my understanding, we haven't seen a road block
with the "integrated" ./lisp layout so far.
Alain
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2016-10-20 9:42 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 204+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <20160916203414.25203.87032@vcs.savannah.gnu.org>
[not found] ` <20160916203416.8DF2F220166@vcs.savannah.gnu.org>
2016-09-16 22:43 ` [Emacs-diffs] feature/integrated-elpa 4f6df43 15/23: README added Stefan Monnier
2016-09-17 7:41 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-17 16:00 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-09-17 21:25 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-18 16:15 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-09-18 18:33 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-17 21:52 ` John Wiegley
2016-09-18 13:30 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-09-18 18:36 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-18 19:45 ` John Wiegley
2016-09-18 22:59 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-09-19 8:48 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-19 14:11 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-09-19 16:00 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-19 16:36 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-09-21 20:26 ` John Wiegley
2016-09-22 12:54 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-22 15:19 ` John Wiegley
2016-09-23 14:55 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-23 16:31 ` John Wiegley
2016-09-26 16:28 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-26 19:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-27 16:01 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-28 15:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-29 9:00 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-29 15:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-29 16:38 ` John Wiegley
2016-09-30 10:43 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-30 11:20 ` Alain Schneble
2016-09-30 12:39 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-30 11:56 ` Alain Schneble
2016-09-30 12:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-30 12:41 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-30 13:24 ` Alain Schneble
2016-09-30 16:17 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-30 20:02 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-03 12:32 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-03 16:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-05 6:28 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-05 15:23 ` Drew Adams
2016-10-07 16:15 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-08 14:58 ` Drew Adams
2016-10-09 20:30 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-07 16:11 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-08 10:43 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-09 20:17 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-08 14:58 ` Drew Adams
2016-10-08 17:35 ` Colin Baxter
2016-10-09 20:20 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-09 20:19 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-09 21:35 ` Drew Adams
2016-10-12 14:02 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-12 15:24 ` Drew Adams
2016-10-08 19:40 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-09 20:25 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-10 3:03 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-12 13:53 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-12 16:29 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-13 10:40 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-13 17:14 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-13 18:21 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-10-13 18:48 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-14 8:11 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-05 7:25 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-07 16:29 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-08 10:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-08 10:57 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-08 11:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-08 11:41 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-08 12:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-08 13:33 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-08 14:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-09 20:42 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-10 6:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-12 14:07 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-12 16:30 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-13 10:47 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-13 17:14 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-13 21:54 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-13 22:09 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-13 22:29 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-14 6:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-14 8:25 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-14 9:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-15 17:41 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-15 18:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-14 8:23 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-14 9:15 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-14 8:20 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-14 8:49 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-14 9:25 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-14 9:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-14 13:51 ` Andy Moreton
2016-10-14 14:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-14 15:12 ` Andy Moreton
2016-10-14 15:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-14 16:47 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-15 12:01 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-15 12:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-15 13:34 ` Achim Gratz
2016-10-15 14:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-15 14:53 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-15 15:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 10:52 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-18 11:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 13:33 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-18 14:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 16:43 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-18 17:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 18:48 ` Achim Gratz
2016-10-18 19:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 7:51 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-19 8:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 9:31 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-19 9:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 9:51 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-19 10:25 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-19 15:19 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-19 19:21 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-19 20:24 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-19 20:57 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-19 22:35 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-20 9:42 ` Alain Schneble [this message]
2016-10-20 7:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 15:14 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-19 17:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 15:09 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-19 15:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 16:12 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-19 17:40 ` Ted Zlatanov
2016-10-19 18:59 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-10-19 19:57 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-19 20:32 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-10-19 22:38 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-20 7:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 20:41 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-10-19 21:17 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-19 21:25 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-10-20 10:01 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-19 22:52 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-20 18:05 ` Achim Gratz
2016-10-19 18:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 19:47 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-20 7:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 18:26 ` Achim Gratz
2016-10-19 18:51 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-19 19:24 ` Achim Gratz
2016-10-19 20:13 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-20 7:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-20 6:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 19:33 ` Alain Schneble
2016-10-19 20:13 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-19 21:56 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-19 23:03 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-20 8:35 ` Michael Albinus
2016-10-20 6:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-15 17:18 ` Achim Gratz
2016-10-18 10:54 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-18 18:54 ` Achim Gratz
2016-10-19 8:01 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-15 17:08 ` Achim Gratz
2016-10-15 17:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 10:59 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-18 11:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 13:37 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-18 14:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 14:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-17 23:09 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-18 6:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 13:01 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-18 14:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 16:59 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-18 17:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 7:54 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-18 18:08 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-19 7:59 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-18 14:04 ` Andy Moreton
2016-10-15 11:51 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-15 12:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-15 11:48 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-09 20:38 ` [Emacs-diffs] " Phillip Lord
2016-10-10 6:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-08 10:25 ` Alain Schneble
2016-09-30 13:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-30 12:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-30 13:06 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-30 13:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-30 16:22 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-30 17:30 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-03 12:33 ` Phillip Lord
2016-10-03 16:13 ` John Wiegley
2016-09-29 16:53 ` John Wiegley
2016-09-29 17:06 ` Drew Adams
2016-09-29 17:13 ` John Wiegley
2016-09-30 10:49 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-30 14:20 ` Drew Adams
2016-09-30 16:25 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-30 10:44 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-21 20:42 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-09-22 12:49 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-22 17:43 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-09-23 14:49 ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-23 15:36 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-09-26 16:23 ` Phillip Lord
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=86d1iv5pb9.fsf@realize.ch \
--to=a.s@realize.ch \
--cc=Stromeko@nexgo.de \
--cc=eliz@gnu.org \
--cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
--cc=phillip.lord@russet.org.uk \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this external index
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.