From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Is Elisp really that slow? Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 01:16:30 +0200 Message-ID: <86d0k2890x.fsf@zoho.eu> References: <20190514235412.kncazq45szlum2gr@Ergus> <83v9yb92c7.fsf@gnu.org> <878sv7sp3r.fsf@telefonica.net> <83r28z8zl9.fsf@gnu.org> <20190515210924.sijzy6mnpgzkt4gm@Ergus> <83ftpecwu1.fsf@gnu.org> <20190516161408.4dov3dwk5h4yoizn@Ergus> <838sv6cmwt.fsf@gnu.org> <20190516202327.5cgy2s4kppy3ahxa@Ergus> <871s0yqg2i.fsf@telefonica.net> <3210C8E9-7A74-47D6-81A0-470948E6D09C@gmail.com> <87r28xq0j1.fsf@telefonica.net> Reply-To: Emanuel Berg Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="136887"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed May 29 01:17:00 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hVlL1-000ZQW-Fb for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 29 May 2019 01:16:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43943 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hVlL0-0000Vk-9c for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 28 May 2019 19:16:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54809) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hVlKl-0000Vf-RA for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2019 19:16:44 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hVlKj-0003CI-Vu for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2019 19:16:43 -0400 Original-Received: from [195.159.176.226] (port=60826 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hVlKi-00039m-Ls for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2019 19:16:41 -0400 Original-Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hVlKg-000Z1R-A7 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 May 2019 01:16:38 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Cancel-Lock: sha1:jEGIuUqzI1M6dE7WW8PsIjM8JrE= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 195.159.176.226 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:120683 Archived-At: Óscar Fuentes wrote: > From 1985 to 2010 (give or take a few years > and discounting Java and some other modern > language) Emacs was the best programmer's > editor on the "by hackers, for hackers" > category. I suppose that most current users > come from that period. I started using Emacs somewhere around 2011-06-11. Because I knew I did another thing then, with either nano or Emacs. So either I stopped using nano then, or I begun using Emacs then ... (wait, that didn't make any sense!) So obviously, it pleases me, with your give-or-take-a-few-years play, I am included in the period! Even then, my hacker intuition was impacable! Now... "Emacs was the best programmer's editor on the 'by hackers, for hackers' category" - 1) When did this stop, give or take a few years? 2) What editors/IDEs pushed Emacs down the ladder? 3) Is it possible to summarize in three or four sentences, what they offer that we lack? Factorization, and instead of just basic modes for a programming language P, tons of features and helpers for that particular language, is what I've heard so far. That doesn't sound so impressive - but it might just be, or there's more. Now two other questions: 1) Are we, or are we not counting Emacs-w3m, Gnus, ERC, the shell, [M]ELPA, the man pages, the file system (Dired), and everything else I've mentioned many times by now? Or do the other editors provide that as well - in different forms, of course? They don't, right? So we are actually not counting huge parts of Emacs, when we compare Emacs to other editors? Parts that are actually really beneficial when writing programs? 2) Do the other editors support tons of languages, like Emacs does, and not just the Emacs favorites like Lisp but Cobol, Pascal, ML, seekwell, LaTeX, zsh, and so on? As well as all the configuration modes? Or are they just better, perhaps much better, at one or two or three languages, e.g. C++ or C#/VB(A)/MS SQL Server? > Maybe, just maybe, having "kill & yank" > instead "copy & paste" is not the cause of > Emacs' lack of appeal to the new generations. Of course it isn't. -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 https://dataswamp.org/~incal