From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Change terminology to better align =?utf-8?Q?users=E2=80=99?= experience with modern GUIs Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2019 03:53:34 +0200 Message-ID: <86blx93b35.fsf@zoho.eu> References: <58E90D68-5CE4-425F-BB5F-07533665ADC0@icloud.com> <20190723104448.GD27308@tuxteam.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="166689"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 01 03:54:00 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1ht0I2-000hEH-93 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2019 03:53:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45438 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ht0I1-0006L1-AP for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 21:53:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40161) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ht0Hr-0006GH-59 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 21:53:48 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ht0Hp-00022G-CU for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 21:53:47 -0400 Original-Received: from 195-159-176-226.customer.powertech.no ([195.159.176.226]:55908 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ht0Hp-00021q-4t for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 21:53:45 -0400 Original-Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1ht0Hk-000guQ-4e for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2019 03:53:40 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Cancel-Lock: sha1:hMOqR+6CHWBTG8V/LYpoy3H8jSk= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 195.159.176.226 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:121291 Archived-At: tomas wrote: > Emacs has a working and dedicated community. > If you just enter through the door and say > "Hello, everybody: how about we change all > names of things, like, now?"... how do you > think people will react? Wait, I think I know the answer to this question! It is "exactly in the way they reacted", yes? > Emacs jargon, evolved over a long time (few > software packages in productive usage can > look back on thirty years of history) > definitely poses a barrier to entry > for newcomers. We have heard many versions of this tale, namely that Emacs is difficult to learn, and difficult to use, and this scares new users away; and if those were only more easy to do, more people would! I don't know how much truth there is to any of that, to be honest. And, unless I'm brained damaged by too much Emacs, there isn't that much "Emacs jargon", is it? > So a good strategy, if you're really hot & > willing to change things would be to grab the > documentation, and perhaps write a companion > to the documentation "Glossary" (let's call > it "Anti-Glossary" which translates "current" > terms into the Emacs terminology. So someone > searching for "window", "pane", "cursor", > etc. has a chance to hit on the > relevant documentation. Well, one can do that for sure, but it comes down to a policy decision. I can't say I care if there is a terminology mismatch from the GUI world to the Emacs ditto, but in general, obviously it is good to strive at a unified terminology, while it can be done practically (perhaps some workaround must be put in place, so not to break code already written but not maintained, code which is outside of the core Emacs binary). > P.S: Sorry if this mail comes across as > somewhat... condescending. This is not my > intention at all! If that's the case, it is > more due to my inability to put things > shortly and clearly. Nah, stop it. > Sorry for that. It's OK. -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 https://dataswamp.org/~incal