Re: New start up splash screen annoyance...

[David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org>]

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

>> >>     ! "		For this window of the frame:
>> >>     ! mouse-1: select (drag to resize), mouse-2: maximize,
>> >>       mouse-3: vanish")
>> >>
>> >> "delete" would be better than "vanish".
>> >>
>> >> Aside from that, do people like it?
>> >
>> > Not I. There is rarely any need for a tooltip to use more than one
>> > line. And this case certainly doesn't require it.
>>
>> Compare the one-line and the two-line version.  The latter version is
>> quite narrower, and the _length_, not the height of the tooltip is
>> more disturbing here, in my opinion.
>
> Does "here" refer to the "latter", which presumably refers to the
> two-line version?

No, "here" refers to comparing the one-line version with the two-line
version.

> Are you saying that you prefer the one-line version?

No.

>> > Why would a tooltip, which is already contextual, need to explain
>> > what its context is, what it pertains to?
>>
>> The context is the mode line, and it pertains to the window above
>> the mode line.
>
> This is not doc; it is a tooltip. Users will try it and find out, if
> unsure.  There are no hazardous materials involved here. You can try
> this at home, kids.

I don't think I would try out a button called "delete" if I don't have
a clue just what it will delete.

>> > Why would it need to say "For this window of the frame"? If it is
>> > not clear enough without that context explanation, then there is
>> > something wrong with the UI beyond just the tooltip text.
>>
>> The mode line is not the same as the window.  "This window of the
>> frame" makes clear that we are not talking about the window
>> system's definition of a window, but about something that is nested
>> within frames.
>
> Really not necessary.
>
> "This window of the frame": "of the frame" is 100% useless, as is
> "this".

If one knows the Emacs terminology by heart.

> If we stop making an effort to keep tooltips short, thinking that we
> need to add padding such as this, then our tooltips will soon become
> Victorian novels.

The first line is shorter than the second one.  Further shortening it
will actually worsen the visual appearance, so there is no point in
omitting helpful content.

> A mode-line is tied to its window and buffer. Though a mode-line can
> contain text that is unrelated to the window/buffer, most of its
> text is usually related.

Tooltips are not primarily for seasoned users.

>> By the way: this tooltip (however many lines it takes) should
>> absolutely not get displayed when there is only one window in the
>> frame: it will only confuse the user since all announced operations
>> are noops and there is no difference between window and frame.
>
> We do agree about that.

Well, at least some common point.  Apart from the first letter of our
name, I doubt we will find many more.  I guess I have said most of
what I have to say about this matter.  If you do what is needed to
feel the same, we can just let the others possibly chime in and let
Richard sort out the mess with a decision.

Or something.

All the best,

-- 
David Kastrup