bug#16644: 24.3.50; Can't get Git Org mode info files before info files bundled with Emacs

bug#16644: 24.3.50; Can't get Git Org mode info files before info files bundled with Emacs

[Sebastien Vauban]

Hello,

As I'm using Org mode from Git, I try to use the info files generated
(by `make info') instead of the "old" ones, bundled with GNU Emacs.

Here is my minimal configuration file:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(message "Loading Minimal Emacs...")

;; Org-mode
(add-to-list 'load-path "~/Public/Repositories/org-mode/lisp")
                                        ; modify the paths to suit your environment!

;; getting started
(add-to-list 'auto-mode-alist '("\\.\\(org\\|org_archive\\|txt\\)\\'" . org-mode))
(require 'org-loaddefs)

(setq Info-default-directory-list
      `(,(expand-file-name
          (concat (file-name-directory (locate-library "org")) "../doc/"))
        "c:/cygwin/usr/share/info/"
        ,@Info-default-directory-list))

(setq Info-additional-directory-list
      `(,(expand-file-name
          (concat (file-name-directory (locate-library "org")) "../doc/"))
        "c:/cygwin/usr/share/info/"))

(message "Loading Minimal Emacs... Done")
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

1. When setting `Info-default-directory-list' ONLY (commenting the lines
   about `Info-additional-directory-list'), the value of
   `Info-directory-list' is:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
   ("c:/Program Files (x86)/emacs-trunk/share/info/"
    "d:/Users/sva/Public/Repositories/org-mode/doc/"
    "c:/cygwin/usr/share/info/")
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

2. When setting `Info-additional-directory-list' ONLY (commenting the lines
   about `Info-default-directory-list'), the value of `Info-directory-list'
   is:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
    ("c:/Program Files (x86)/emacs-trunk/share/info/")
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

That is: I never get the info files from the Git repository in front of
the Emacs one.

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

bug#16644: 24.3.50; Can't get Git Org mode info files before info files bundled with Emacs

[Glenn Morris]

If you are running uninstalled, I expect

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-diffs/2014-01/msg00130.html

is to blame. It should probably be reverted anyway.

(We could discuss the original motivation for that in #16407 if anyone
cares.)

bug#16644: 24.3.50; Can't get Git Org mode info files before info files bundled with Emacs

[Sebastien Vauban]

Glenn Morris wrote:
> If you are running uninstalled,

IIUC, yes, I'm running "uninstalled", as I grab a Win32 binary compiled
by Dani, and just put it in C:/Program Files (x86)/.

> I expect
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-diffs/2014-01/msg00130.html is
> to blame. It should probably be reverted anyway.

Does that commit account as being the cause of BOTH problems?

>> 1. When setting `Info-default-directory-list' ONLY (commenting the lines
>>    about `Info-additional-directory-list'), the value of
>>    `Info-directory-list' is:
>> 
>>    ("c:/Program Files (x86)/emacs-trunk/share/info/"
>>     "d:/Users/sva/Public/Repositories/org-mode/doc/"
>>     "c:/cygwin/usr/share/info/")
>> 
>> 2. When setting `Info-additional-directory-list' ONLY (commenting the lines
>>    about `Info-default-directory-list'), the value of `Info-directory-list'
>>    is:
>> 
>>     ("c:/Program Files (x86)/emacs-trunk/share/info/")

Which var am I supposed to customize: `Info-default-directory-list' or
`Info-additional-directory-list'?

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

bug#16644: 24.3.50; Can't get Git Org mode info files before info files bundled with Emacs

[Glenn Morris]

"Sebastien Vauban" wrote:

> Does that commit account as being the cause of BOTH problems?

Please test revert it and see?

> Which var am I supposed to customize: `Info-default-directory-list' or
> `Info-additional-directory-list'?

I was going to say `read the doc of Info-default-directory-list'; but
owing to http://debbugs.gnu.org/11565 it doesn't have one, sigh.
So you'll have ro read the doc in info.el itself.

bug#16644: 24.3.50; Can't get Git Org mode info files before info files bundled with Emacs

[Sebastien Vauban]

Glenn Morris wrote:
> "Sebastien Vauban" wrote:
>
>> Does that commit account as being the cause of BOTH problems?
>
> Please test revert it and see?

I'll do.

>> Which var am I supposed to customize: `Info-default-directory-list' or
>> `Info-additional-directory-list'?
>
> I was going to say `read the doc of Info-default-directory-list'; but
> owing to http://debbugs.gnu.org/11565 it doesn't have one, sigh.
> So you'll have ro read the doc in info.el itself.

The docstring of `Info-default-directory-list' says:

  ╭────
  │ Although this is a customizable variable, that is mainly for technical
  │ reasons.  Normally, you should either set INFOPATH or customize
  │ `Info-additional-directory-list', rather than changing this variable.
  ╰────

But that's was astonishes me: while setting
`Info-default-directory-list' builds an wrongly ordered
`Info-directory-list', setting `Info-additional-directory-list' had _no_
impact on `Info-directory-list'...

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

bug#16644: 24.3.50; Can't get Git Org mode info files before info files bundled with Emacs

[Sebastien Vauban]

"Sebastien Vauban" wrote:
> Glenn Morris wrote:
>> "Sebastien Vauban" wrote:
>>
>>> Does that commit account as being the cause of BOTH problems?
>>
>> Please test revert it and see?
>
> I'll do.

DONE: that does have 0 impact on the results!?

With or without that patch, there is nothing more added to
`Info-directory-list', or it is added at its end.

>>> Which var am I supposed to customize: `Info-default-directory-list' or
>>> `Info-additional-directory-list'?
>>
>> I was going to say `read the doc of Info-default-directory-list'; but
>> owing to http://debbugs.gnu.org/11565 it doesn't have one, sigh.
>> So you'll have ro read the doc in info.el itself.
>
> The docstring of `Info-default-directory-list' says:
>
>   ╭────
>   │ Although this is a customizable variable, that is mainly for technical
>   │ reasons.  Normally, you should either set INFOPATH or customize
>   │ `Info-additional-directory-list', rather than changing this variable.
>   ╰────
>
> But that's was astonishes me: while setting
> `Info-default-directory-list' builds an wrongly ordered
> `Info-directory-list', setting `Info-additional-directory-list' had _no_
> impact on `Info-directory-list'...

What is supposed to be the right way in these conditions?

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

bug#16644: 24.3.50; Can't get Git Org mode info files before info files bundled with Emacs

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: "Sebastien Vauban" <sva-news@mygooglest.com>
> Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2014 16:26:10 +0100
> 
> > The docstring of `Info-default-directory-list' says:
> >
> >   ╭────
> >   │ Although this is a customizable variable, that is mainly for technical
> >   │ reasons.  Normally, you should either set INFOPATH or customize
> >   │ `Info-additional-directory-list', rather than changing this variable.
> >   ╰────
> >
> > But that's was astonishes me: while setting
> > `Info-default-directory-list' builds an wrongly ordered
> > `Info-directory-list', setting `Info-additional-directory-list' had _no_
> > impact on `Info-directory-list'...
> 
> What is supposed to be the right way in these conditions?

Do you customize Info-additional-directory-list before or after
info.elc is loaded?

bug#16644: 24.3.50; Can't get Git Org mode info files before info files bundled with Emacs

[Sebastien Vauban]

Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> From: "Sebastien Vauban" <sva-news-D0wtAvR13HarG/iDocfnWg@public.gmane.org>
>> Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2014 16:26:10 +0100
>> 
>> > The docstring of `Info-default-directory-list' says:
>> >
>> >   ╭────
>> >   │ Although this is a customizable variable, that is mainly for technical
>> >   │ reasons.  Normally, you should either set INFOPATH or customize
>> >   │ `Info-additional-directory-list', rather than changing this variable.
>> >   ╰────
>> >
>> > But that's was astonishes me: while setting
>> > `Info-default-directory-list' builds an wrongly ordered
>> > `Info-directory-list', setting `Info-additional-directory-list' had _no_
>> > impact on `Info-directory-list'...
>> 
>> What is supposed to be the right way in these conditions?
>
> Do you customize Info-additional-directory-list before or after
> info.elc is loaded?

Before, because it's in my minimal Emacs configuration file.

When Emacs is up, `Info-directory-list' is not even known yet, proof
that `info.el' has not yet been loaded. It is known once I do `C-h i'.

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

bug#16644: 24.3.50; Can't get Git Org mode info files before info files bundled with Emacs

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: "Sebastien Vauban" <sva-news@mygooglest.com>
> Cc: rgm@gnu.org,  16644@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2014 17:12:05 +0100
> 
> > Do you customize Info-additional-directory-list before or after
> > info.elc is loaded?
> 
> Before, because it's in my minimal Emacs configuration file.

Then it does has its influence, see Info-find-file and
Info-insert-dir.

bug#16644: 24.3.50; Can't get Git Org mode info files before info files bundled with Emacs

[Sebastien Vauban]

Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> From: "Sebastien Vauban" <sva-news-D0wtAvR13HarG/iDocfnWg@public.gmane.org>
>> Cc: rgm-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org,  16644-ubl+/3LiMTaZdePnXv/OxA@public.gmane.org
>> Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2014 17:12:05 +0100
>> 
>> > Do you customize Info-additional-directory-list before or after
>> > info.elc is loaded?
>> 
>> Before, because it's in my minimal Emacs configuration file.
>
> Then it does has its influence,

I re-did the tests with GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of
2014-02-03 on LEG570 (and a patched Info.el, as asked by Glenn).

I have Org mode from Git installed at
~/Public/Repositories/org-mode/lisp.

I have an up-to-date Info file (generated by "make doc") at
~/Public/Repositories/org-mode/doc/org.

I checked that it's up-to-date by doing "info doc/org" from the root of
the Git repository: it shows me the doc for Org mode 8.2.5h.

1. Setting `Info-additional-directory-list', such in this MWE (just that
   to launch Emacs with, nothing else [1]):

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
   ;; Org-mode
   (add-to-list 'load-path "~/Public/Repositories/org-mode/lisp")
                                           ; modify the paths to suit your environment!

   (setq Info-additional-directory-list
         `(,(expand-file-name
             (concat (file-name-directory (locate-library "org")) "../doc/"))
           "c:/cygwin/usr/share/info/"))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

   has NO IMPACT on Info-directory-list (C-h v following an initial C-h i).

2.  Setting `Info-default-directory-list', such in this MWE:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
   ;; Org-mode
   (add-to-list 'load-path "~/Public/Repositories/org-mode/lisp")
                                           ; modify the paths to suit your environment!

   (setq Info-default-directory-list
         `(,(expand-file-name
             (concat (file-name-directory (locate-library "org")) "../doc/"))
           "c:/cygwin/usr/share/info/"
           ,@Info-default-directory-list))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

   DOES CHANGE the variable `Info-directory-list', but my path is put
   AFTERWARD:

   ╭────
   │ Its value is
   │ ("c:/Program Files (x86)/emacs-trunk/share/info/"
   │ "d:/Users/fni/Public/Repositories/org-mode/doc/"
   │ "c:/cygwin/usr/share/info/")
   ╰────

In both cases, I get the doc of Org mode 8.2.5c, the one built with the
Emacs from a couple of days ago.

Don't you get the same results as me if you try the above recipe?

> see Info-find-file and Info-insert-dir.

Do you want me to make some specific test?

Best regards,
  Seb

[1] C:/Program Files (x86)/emacs-trunk/bin/emacs -q -l d:/Users/sva/src/emacs-leuven/.emacs-minimal.el

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

bug#16644: 24.3.50; Can't get Git Org mode info files before info files bundled with Emacs

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: "Sebastien Vauban" <sva-news@mygooglest.com>
> Cc: rgm@gnu.org,  16644@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 23:10:14 +0100
> 
> 1. Setting `Info-additional-directory-list', such in this MWE (just that
>    to launch Emacs with, nothing else [1]):
> 
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>    ;; Org-mode
>    (add-to-list 'load-path "~/Public/Repositories/org-mode/lisp")
>                                            ; modify the paths to suit your environment!
> 
>    (setq Info-additional-directory-list
>          `(,(expand-file-name
>              (concat (file-name-directory (locate-library "org")) "../doc/"))
>            "c:/cygwin/usr/share/info/"))

Any reasons why you use backticks here?

> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
> 
>    has NO IMPACT on Info-directory-list (C-h v following an initial C-h i).

It shouldn't: Emacs does not modify Info-directory-list using
Info-additional-directory-list, it uses them both when appropriate,
and searches Info-directory-list first, followed by
Info-additional-directory-list.  Like the doc string of
Info-additional-directory-list says:

  List of additional directories to search for Info documentation files.
  These directories are searched after those in `Info-directory-list'.

> 2.  Setting `Info-default-directory-list', such in this MWE:
> 
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>    ;; Org-mode
>    (add-to-list 'load-path "~/Public/Repositories/org-mode/lisp")
>                                            ; modify the paths to suit your environment!
> 
>    (setq Info-default-directory-list
>          `(,(expand-file-name
>              (concat (file-name-directory (locate-library "org")) "../doc/"))
>            "c:/cygwin/usr/share/info/"
>            ,@Info-default-directory-list))
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
> 
>    DOES CHANGE the variable `Info-directory-list', but my path is put
>    AFTERWARD:
> 
>    ╭────
>    │ Its value is
>    │ ("c:/Program Files (x86)/emacs-trunk/share/info/"
>    │ "d:/Users/fni/Public/Repositories/org-mode/doc/"
>    │ "c:/cygwin/usr/share/info/")
>    ╰────
> 
> In both cases, I get the doc of Org mode 8.2.5c, the one built with the
> Emacs from a couple of days ago.
> 
> Don't you get the same results as me if you try the above recipe?

These results are expected, I think.  The doc string of
Info-directory-list says, among other things:

  If you want to override the order of directories in
  `Info-default-directory-list', set INFOPATH in the environment.

So I suggest to do just that.

bug#16644: 24.3.50; Can't get Git Org mode info files before info files bundled with Emacs

[Sebastien Vauban]

Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> From: "Sebastien Vauban" <sva-news-D0wtAvR13HarG/iDocfnWg@public.gmane.org>
>> Cc: rgm-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org,  16644-ubl+/3LiMTaZdePnXv/OxA@public.gmane.org
>> Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 23:10:14 +0100
>> 
>> 1. Setting `Info-additional-directory-list', such in this MWE (just that
>>    to launch Emacs with, nothing else [1]):
>> 
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>>    ;; Org-mode
>>    (add-to-list 'load-path "~/Public/Repositories/org-mode/lisp")
>>                                            ; modify the paths to suit your environment!
>> 
>>    (setq Info-additional-directory-list
>>          `(,(expand-file-name
>>              (concat (file-name-directory (locate-library "org")) "../doc/"))
>>            "c:/cygwin/usr/share/info/"))
>
> Any reasons why you use backticks here?

In fact, no. That comes from a copy/paste of what I did with
`Info-default-directory-list'. Useless indeed, but shouldn't matter.

>> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>> 
>>    has NO IMPACT on Info-directory-list (C-h v following an initial C-h i).
>
> It shouldn't: Emacs does not modify Info-directory-list using
> Info-additional-directory-list, it uses them both when appropriate,
> and searches Info-directory-list first, followed by
> Info-additional-directory-list.  Like the doc string of
> Info-additional-directory-list says:
>
>   List of additional directories to search for Info documentation files.
>   These directories are searched after those in `Info-directory-list'.

OK, that's clear to me (now) for that one.

>> 2.  Setting `Info-default-directory-list', such in this MWE:
>> 
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>>    ;; Org-mode
>>    (add-to-list 'load-path "~/Public/Repositories/org-mode/lisp")
>>                                            ; modify the paths to suit your environment!
>> 
>>    (setq Info-default-directory-list
>>          `(,(expand-file-name
>>              (concat (file-name-directory (locate-library "org")) "../doc/"))
>>            "c:/cygwin/usr/share/info/"
>>            ,@Info-default-directory-list))
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>> 
>>    DOES CHANGE the variable `Info-directory-list', but my path is put
>>    AFTERWARD:
>> 
>>    ╭────
>>    │ Its value is
>>    │ ("c:/Program Files (x86)/emacs-trunk/share/info/"
>>    │ "d:/Users/fni/Public/Repositories/org-mode/doc/"
>>    │ "c:/cygwin/usr/share/info/")
>>    ╰────
>> 
>> In both cases, I get the doc of Org mode 8.2.5c, the one built with the
>> Emacs from a couple of days ago.
>> 
>> Don't you get the same results as me if you try the above recipe?
>
> These results are expected, I think.  The doc string of
> Info-directory-list says, among other things:
>
>   If you want to override the order of directories in
>   `Info-default-directory-list', set INFOPATH in the environment.
>
> So I suggest to do just that.

I think I did, no!?

The docstring says:

- set `Info-default-directory-list', or
- set INFOPATH environment variable.

As I want to be able to easily use my Emacs in different machines, or
even different OSes, I chose to set the `Info-default-directory-list'
variable (one of the two choices adviced by the docstring), so that
everything is in my `.emacs' configuration file.

However, while I set the order of directories to be:

1. first the Info files from Org mode Git, then
2. from Cygwin tools, then
3. the ones built within Emacs,

I expect to just get that in `Info-directory-list'. It isn't the case.

So, is there a way to put my Info files before the ones from Emacs?

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

bug#16644: 24.3.50; Can't get Git Org mode info files before info files bundled with Emacs

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: "Sebastien Vauban" <sva-news@mygooglest.com>
> Cc: rgm@gnu.org,  16644@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 09:20:21 +0100
> 
> However, while I set the order of directories to be:
> 
> 1. first the Info files from Org mode Git, then
> 2. from Cygwin tools, then
> 3. the ones built within Emacs,
> 
> I expect to just get that in `Info-directory-list'. It isn't the case.
> 
> So, is there a way to put my Info files before the ones from Emacs?

It was possible before this commit:

  http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-diffs/2014-01/msg00130.html

Now it isn't: the Emacs's own Info directory is always at the front,
like Glenn told you in his response to your original bug report.

However, you could perhaps rearrange Info-directory-list in an Info
mode hook, or directly.  Or just overwrite the manuals that came with
Emacs with your local ones.

bug#16644: 24.3.50; Can't get Git Org mode info files before info files bundled with Emacs

[Sebastien Vauban]

Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> From: "Sebastien Vauban" <sva-news-D0wtAvR13HarG/iDocfnWg@public.gmane.org>
>> Cc: rgm-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org,  16644-ubl+/3LiMTaZdePnXv/OxA@public.gmane.org
>> Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 09:20:21 +0100
>> 
>> However, while I set the order of directories to be:
>> 
>> 1. first the Info files from Org mode Git, then
>> 2. from Cygwin tools, then
>> 3. the ones built within Emacs,
>> 
>> I expect to just get that in `Info-directory-list'. It isn't the case.
>> 
>> So, is there a way to put my Info files before the ones from Emacs?
>
> It was possible before this commit:
>
>   http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-diffs/2014-01/msg00130.html
>
> Now it isn't: the Emacs's own Info directory is always at the front,
> like Glenn told you in his response to your original bug report.
>
> However, you could perhaps rearrange Info-directory-list in an Info
> mode hook, or directly.  Or just overwrite the manuals that came with
> Emacs with your local ones.

Let's try to summarize:

- If I'm OK with having my Info files after the Emacs ones, I can use
  `Info-additional-directory-list' which serves that purpose.

- If I'm not OK with that, I must fiddle the value of
  `Info-directory-list', in the following way (which works in my case):

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
  (with-eval-after-load "info"
    (setq Info-directory-list
          `(,(expand-file-name
              (concat (file-name-directory (locate-library "org"))
                      "../doc/"))
            "c:/cygwin/usr/share/info/"
            ,@Info-directory-list)))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

So, what's the point of still having `Info-default-directory-list'???

In all cases, I'm not sure its docstring is right anymore:

  ╭────
  │ Default list of directories to search for Info documentation files.
  │ They are searched in the order they are given in the list.
  │ Therefore, the directory of Info files that come with Emacs
  │ normally should come last (so that local files override standard ones),
  │ unless Emacs is installed into a non-standard directory.  In the latter
  │ case, the directory of Info files that come with Emacs should be
  │ first in this list.
  ╰────

Or am I in the case where "Emacs is installed into a non-standard
directory"?  I have the impression that yes, it's so, if I look at the
mentioned consequences. But I don't have the impression it's installed
in a non-standard directory if I look at the Windows conventions (it's,
here, in C:\Program Files (x86)).

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

bug#16644: 24.3.50; Can't get Git Org mode info files before info files bundled with Emacs

[Glenn Morris]

Glenn Morris wrote:

> If you are running uninstalled, I expect
>
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-diffs/2014-01/msg00130.html
>
> is to blame. It should probably be reverted anyway.

Done.