From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: face for non-ASCII characters Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 09:27:54 -0700 Message-ID: <86815A0AB7354FA3874096E7B5FA2F08@us.oracle.com> References: <87r5ncxp4z.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87hbo8tf4i.fsf@turtle.gmx.de><87hbo8xis5.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87aau0t7uy.fsf@turtle.gmx.de><87sk7svyam.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87vdcngws4.fsf@mail.jurta.org><87y6hjxgfn.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com><87hbo6x5pe.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87tydzdtn9.fsf@lifelogs.com><877hav2f30.fsf@lifelogs.com><87zknqnsmr.fsf@lifelogs.com><87bp06nqy4.fsf@lifelogs.com><877haunq8t.fsf@lifelogs.com> <8739linpib.fsf@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1302971293 4751 80.91.229.12 (16 Apr 2011 16:28:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 16:28:13 +0000 (UTC) To: "'Ted Zlatanov'" , Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 16 18:28:09 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QB8Lw-0001y0-NF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 16 Apr 2011 18:28:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53471 helo=lists2.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QB8Lw-000700-5k for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 16 Apr 2011 12:28:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:43718) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QB8Lt-0006zv-8n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Apr 2011 12:28:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QB8Lr-00044P-13 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Apr 2011 12:28:05 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:55752) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QB8Lq-00044I-Pq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Apr 2011 12:28:02 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id p3GGS0ui015000 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 16 Apr 2011 16:28:01 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by rcsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id p3GGRxD8013785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 16 Apr 2011 16:28:00 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt008.oracle.com (abhmt008.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p3GGRwxJ020190; Sat, 16 Apr 2011 11:27:59 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.44.222) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 16 Apr 2011 09:27:58 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <8739linpib.fsf@lifelogs.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6090 Thread-Index: Acv8UT8EqqCWDHULQQSuPve07WY6vAAANrPQ X-Source-IP: acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090202.4DA9C390.0066:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 148.87.113.121 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:138528 Archived-At: > DA> Why set up autoloading here? Seems like you would want > DA> to either soft-require the library (no error if not there) > DA> or simply test whether the function is defined (which > DA> presumably happens when the library is loaded). > DA> > DA> IOW, why don't you just choose between (require 'foo nil > DA> t) and (fboundp 'foobar)? What's the point of having > DA> this library autoload the other one but not soft-require it? > > Lennart wants to conditionally, if idn.el is available, to enable its > use in the defcustom so things Just Work for the user: > > (defcustom markchars-what > `(markchars-simple-pattern > markchars-confusables > ,@(when (fboundp 'idn-is-recommended) '(markchars-nonidn-fun))) I understand that. But it seems to me that either we want to unconditionally load idn.el if available (in `load-path') or we do not want to do that. In the latter case, we are leaving it up to the user to load it if s?he wants. And in that case the proper test is simply `fboundp'. I still don't see the point of the middle ground you're scoping out, of autoloading but not soft-requiring. When this library (the other one, not idn.el) is loaded, do you want idn.el to have been loaded or not? If you do, then soft-require. If you want to leave that choice up to the user, then test with `fboundp'. What am I missing? > I'm not sure what's the right approach, but IMO (require 'idn > nil t) is the simplest solution. `fboundp' is just as simple. It's not about simple, I think. It's about deciding what's best for most users. Do we want this library to load idn.el whenever it is in the `load-path' or not?