From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: composed characters question and suggestions for quail-cyrillic-* Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:09:12 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <867ict8awn.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <86lk19mmua.fsf@lifelogs.com> <485298A4.30000@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1213380370 16455 80.91.229.12 (13 Jun 2008 18:06:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:06:10 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jun 13 20:06:53 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1K7DfL-0002WR-UF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:06:24 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54755 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K7DeY-000509-3l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:05:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7DeT-0004zy-Kw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:05:29 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7DeR-0004ze-Ta for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:05:28 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=56824 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K7DeR-0004zb-Qs for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:05:27 -0400 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2]:56371 helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K7DeR-0004Pg-4A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:05:27 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1K7DeP-0006I2-M0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:05:25 +0000 Original-Received: from 38.98.147.130 ([38.98.147.130]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:05:25 +0000 Original-Received: from tzz by 38.98.147.130 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:05:25 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 59 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.98.147.130 X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:SsTMdAVuBK0z2aO3V0pOkl7o0Dw= X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:99137 Archived-At: On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:56:20 +0100 Jason Rumney wrote: JR> Ted Zlatanov wrote: >> It really looks unpleasant in the font recorded here, taking up two rows >> so the accent can be displayed alone on top of the letter, so I'm >> curious if Emacs will pick the right appearance if the font has an >> accented version of the character. JR> No. There are no unicode codepoints for those accented characters JR> AFAICS so we can't do the substitution within Emacs. The only way to JR> combine them would be if the font contained GSUB (glyph substitution) JR> tables with entries for those sequences of characters, and Emacs had JR> been told to use font-shape-text for displaying Cyrillic (currently it JR> is only used for Indic and some South East Asian scripts, but should JR> be for Arabic as well). The library that Emacs uses for shaping JR> (libotf/m17n-flt or on Windows uniscribe) might need some knowledge of JR> those accented characters as well, I'm not entirely sure of how glyph JR> shaping all fits together. I understand better now. I'll work without composition. How do I generate composed characters for Quail mappings? I couldn't figure it out with compose-chars. I found accented a and o in the Latin-1 map, and accented u (у) is not available by itself. I'd like to get the accented у character for completeness, but Latin-* only has an accented y with the accent going in the wrong direction (ý). It's probably more proper to do the Cyrillic аоu(у) as composed characters, but I don't know. Accented e and i were in the Cyrillic map and look fine. These accented characters are rare enough that it doesn't matter; in common usage only ѝ is found (in Bulgarian, at least). The others are used only if the writer wants to emphasize which syllable to stress upon pronunciation, as in a dictionary, AFAIK. On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:11:19 +0300 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> I'll be glad to implement the Quail changes if they are OK with >> everyone. I didn't go ahead and implement them because I'm not familiar >> with any existing conventions; maybe there's a reason why they have not >> been added yet. EZ> Please go ahead. In my experience, most omissions in the input EZ> methods are not intentional, they are just because no one cared enough EZ> to include them. Thanks. I did: * quail/cyrillic.el: Add quotation marks, paragraph symbol, angled brackets, number symbol, and accented aeio to cyrillic-translit. The quotation marks are both ‚‘ and „“ (plus «» which are also common). Let me know if I've missed anything. I can add these to the other cyrillic-* methods if people think it's useful. Thanks Ted