From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs website, Lisp, and other Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2024 17:55:56 +0300 Message-ID: <867ccvqarn.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87sevj9b50.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <871q33rj7v.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87r0b3p7wq.fsf@dataswamp.org> <874j7zf7rl.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38116"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 05 16:56:27 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1saz8M-0009k5-J6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2024 16:56:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1saz85-0005Fw-3g; Mon, 05 Aug 2024 10:56:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1saz80-0005FY-8L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2024 10:56:04 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1saz7z-0000xT-IS; Mon, 05 Aug 2024 10:56:03 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=OTQfUbPHBeZs4HmSaZvBEoUsjsj78ZA1JvLvSfZ6I5I=; b=ZRj17jRQ3gc9fEl6OEua Ku7YhEPPf9EYyYHtw7Gg2qLinFKvCt17jcjA94LN0Pra0cirWQlBghHMc29P0/EOCxlOZBSbRRmHm YSgGXC2Vd8q18qmIWbxBYq76zcjelRFWSeNNxSgW++FCi7MpNB0vxwHzLUIiLqTYEsR0P8ycM/eD/ gacFDU2a93/ZdwldZRa8zunEvRd3e2te6Kd/fZLKrrBOoiMnCnkJ0lc7rY52QNiRLkoqoXiY061e6 to3QYs0GmCxfMEPyhbjWMvNDexl6zq2u8JypQdMlMtzmnZvUKAvCzmXS0+kj9BiehW1f4pf0ZK0MO kMxRAvR6ie++QQ==; In-Reply-To: <874j7zf7rl.fsf@web.de> (arne_bab@web.de) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:322372 Archived-At: > From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" > Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2024 14:56:14 +0200 > > Emanuel Berg writes: > > > Christopher Dimech wrote: > >> The best education one can get today is by self discovery. > > I tried that while at school. Luckily my teachers trusted my skills > enough to let me step out of chemistry class for half a year and learn > by myself. And prove my knowledge afterwards. > > My takeaway was: > > I could learn Chemistry myself. It worked. > But it took three times as much time as learning it in school. > > So, having actual, tested experience with both styles of learning, > I disagree. As long as your teachers are somewhat competent, learning in > school is far more efficient than learning only by self discovery. > > And if you take it seriously, you develop deeper understanding than when > you only do self discovery (and take that as seriously). > > >>> Okay, then everyone should know this is a controversial > >>> thing to say. No one, or very few, would recommend Emacs > >>> Lisp as an alternative to Python 2024. > > Having gone from Python to Guile Scheme around 2013, I also disagree ☺ > > But having said that: I do consider indentation style code more readable > than using mostly parentheses. > > After reading people say things like > > «allows people to see code how Lispers perceive it. Its structure > becomes apparent.», > «it makes Scheme way more “approachable”», and > «I have actually found it insanely useful to getting stuff done», > > I think I have a point. > > > I don't know the details of the history but I doubt it > > happened that way. > > There is a thread of thoughts by Beka Valentine from just these days > about how hackers tend to mix up who got popular with who is better, > because they don’t like to accept that languages usually do not grow > widespread by Logical Truth. I suggest reading that, before continuing > this discussion. > > https://rollenspiel.social/@beka_valentine@kolektiva.social/112905007985491839 This is off-topic here, please use the emacs-tangents list instead. Thanks.