From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#73231: 30.0.91; image-dired cannot be operated until all thumbnails are created (MS-Windows) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2024 12:45:51 +0300 Message-ID: <864j6hdzcg.fsf@gnu.org> References: <861q1n1z2z.fsf@gmail.com> <867cbfk0e5.fsf@gnu.org> <86v7yyiven.fsf@gnu.org> <8634m2h3cq.fsf@gnu.org> <86jzfde8o1.fsf@gnu.org> <86bk0pe3z9.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="18701"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 73231@debbugs.gnu.org To: AKIYAMA Kouhei Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 15 11:47:20 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1splqh-0004jc-Ip for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Sun, 15 Sep 2024 05:46:12 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1splpK-0001WY-K1; Sun, 15 Sep 2024 05:45:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=INOnV2aRZEsEwYgPnh1IlR5YDO5jCTrAD9XTVDBuQe0=; b=TdHDwx0k7qKq jgR2cZkBDlGqsPVg+wLJXzkvNwXM365+mvTuphV31xdurL7wrIdo6UIFotIMfmFFjlqOeAAMEqJ5u JIQfCc1ZcTn27kvhZ45c5AReo8pU6uSZIHZlXGfoRsL/XbdH5Wjhv3HU3ZcQSTPdhPNLydp2ZTFOe 9x0XoEPiYvbgooDzqgMqUFeGqqfta8AN1X402mP5D4hmFnVyird8eq0WvLk11SbyvMD1fuSZ5Jlpb RIkWyt+L9XD6UqFufFz/L8EIo+jGuemQ3vdl2FJ0eIMNn79AANLPF6DuvT59qU9leruqU0arZD/X6 Dau/Fsne1YFV0nOPP4cNJA==; In-Reply-To: (message from AKIYAMA Kouhei on Sun, 15 Sep 2024 18:33:52 +0900) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:291836 Archived-At: > From: AKIYAMA Kouhei > Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2024 18:33:52 +0900 > Cc: 73231@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Because the test is performed when the package is loaded, it might > > make different decisions that the user expects, because the user > > doesn't control when the package is loaded. For example, if > > ImageMagick is installed after this defcustom is evaluated, its > > value will be incorrect from the user's POV. > > Isn't that the same with GraphicsMagick? In your opinion, that means > the (executable-find "gm") part is also incorrect from the user's POV? Yes, IMO. If GraphicsMagick is installed after the package is loaded by Emacs, the result will be incorrect. > > > If necessary, the user can change the settings of the > > > program that creates thumbnails by themselves (after installing > > > ImageMagick or GraphicsMagick). > > > > I'm talking about the default value. Customizing this will make the > > value fixed, not dynamically-decided. > > Of course I'm talking about default values. Of course the value is > fixed when the package is loaded. And I thought that was acceptable > because I saw (executable-find "gm") written in defcustom. Is it > wrong? My point is that customizing the value is usually followed by saving the customizations, which will cause all the future Emacs session to use the same fixed value, bypassing the dynamic decision in the original value. > > > In other words, first create > > > thumbnails with the built-in function (w32image-create-thumbnail), and > > > if a user is dissatisfied with them, they can install either > > > ImageMagick or GraphicsMagick and specify the program they installed > > > via M-x customize-variable > > > image-dired-cmd-create-thumbnail-program. Isn't this the same for most > > > other parts of Emacs? For example, if a user is dissatisfied with grep > > > and installs ripgrep, they will have to manually change grep-command > > > themselves. Isn't it the same? Why does Emacs automatically determine > > > the thumbnail creation method without the user's permission? > > > > Emacs does this in many other cases, so this is hardly an exception. > > Even if you say "many other cases," it's still a minority when viewed > in the context of Emacs as a whole, right? It is used almost everywhere where some function can be provided either by an external program or by an internal Emacs API. > I was simply curious about > why a different decision was made here compared to the method adopted > by the majority, so I asked. I'm not saying you should do it that > way. I just thought there might be a hint in the reasoning that could > help me understand something. Like I said, the main reason was technical: I wanted to make sure the test detects when 'convert' or 'gm' is installed, even if they are installed while the Emacs session is already running and it already loaded the image-dired package. > > I thought it should stay at its nil/t value until the user invokes > > that hypothetical command to perform the check again and set the > > variable to the value produced by the check. > > That's fine, but wouldn't it be more natural to have them set a > customization variable rather than calling the command? Maybe. We'll have to see when this becomes relevant. > I didn't fully understand your thoughts on the existence test of the > convert command, but I have some understanding. I hope this was > helpful for people who have the same question as me. Of course, you > are free to decide how to do it. Thanks.