From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs vista build failures Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:20:53 +0200 Message-ID: <863alzd1mi.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> References: <87ej5oz4pb.fsf@saeurebad.de> <87vdyzxype.fsf@saeurebad.de> <871w1njq32.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87iquzxgtk.fsf@saeurebad.de> <4884CFEF.8040404@gmail.com> <48861A51.1090401@gmail.com> <20080724080727.GA3448@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216895069 8444 80.91.229.12 (24 Jul 2008 10:24:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:24:29 +0000 (UTC) Cc: lord@emf.net, Richard M Stallman , drobinow@gmail.com, "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" , hannes@saeurebad.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org, miles@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 24 12:25:17 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KLy0b-00089d-6z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:25:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53677 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KLxzh-00038J-7D for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:24:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KLxwW-0002FI-Lk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:21:04 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KLxwS-0002Dh-Dk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:21:00 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=51684 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KLxwQ-0002Cu-Fo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:20:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.quinscape.de ([212.29.44.217]:39308) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KLxwP-0004N7-Tb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:20:58 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail-ldap/ctrl 13142 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 10:20:54 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (HELO lola.quinscape.zz) ([10.0.3.43]) (envelope-sender ) by quinx.quinscape.de (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 24 Jul 2008 10:20:53 -0000 Original-Received: by lola.quinscape.zz (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 5934A8F047; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:20:54 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <20080724080727.GA3448@muc.de> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Thu, 24 Jul 2008 08:07:28 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir MailGate (version: 2.1.3-2; AVE: 7.8.1.11; VDF: 7.0.5.161; host: quinx) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:101376 Archived-At: Alan Mackenzie writes: > Hi, Richard! > > On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:56:12PM -0400, Richard M Stallman wrote: >> IF making free programs working on windows helps promote GNU/Linux >> (or Herd) is not that good? > >> Yes, but we can't assume in general that that is the case. For a few >> programs, such as OpenOffice and Firefox, the fact that they run on >> Windows seems to be a signficant aid to migration to GNU/Linux. But I >> don't see that this is true for other free programs. > > This is rather fundamental: Why do we write free software? My personal > motivation is to make the world a better place. But the world is large. If one can bundle resources by just making one place that is accessible to everyone better, one can achieve quite more. And this place are free operating systems. When there were not any, the GNU project still worked on making the world better in a lot of hostile places. But there is no point to distribute efforts still to places where nobody really needs to be. > When I ask myself, is the world better for having Emacs and Firefox > running on Microsoft Windows, the answer is an unequivocal yes - > people who hack on MS-Windows can thus do a better job. But their job does not in general benefit others. So we are creating better opportunities for work that does not help the community. > The availability of free software on proprietary OSs might well cause > the newly enlightened to explore free software further and possibly to > start hacking it. A lack of free software on these OSs most surely > will not. But diluting our resources to proprietary dead ends that will not benefit users of free systems is not a good idea. If somebody who otherwise would not do anything else does it, the free software world does not get reduced. But that's not the case in general. -- David Kastrup