From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: What does 'run' do in cperl-mode? Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:31:49 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <863alt7l16.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <0ded5ecd-f5f6-4a8e-9d19-f61bf0401022@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com> <86hcad9ar4.fsf@lifelogs.com> <0bb45e96-f9f3-4451-a457-004bb5930c76@p10g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <86wsj66sby.fsf@lifelogs.com> <6a01ec87-795c-4306-a698-d6d6ba85afdd@n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <86bq0h7pdx.fsf@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1217281241 21494 80.91.229.12 (28 Jul 2008 21:40:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:40:41 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 28 23:41:31 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KNaTC-0005ah-Nq for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:41:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38068 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KNaSI-0003Wv-Mq for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:40:34 -0400 Original-Path: news.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!news.schnuerpel.net!news.schnuerpel.eu!news.albasani.net!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 60 Original-X-Trace: news.albasani.net uU9/HuzWw70AIS33+eQDY/OZ0G15jN62Tkh00ErdOa2fVh/KsS0FMSMM38bRG6Y3wx8Y+6HqT0C8zgA650KIx5Gx8T9yQiNDG337YrvbCrc3yeJr8CxWP0j7dZdMYfeA Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@albasani.net Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:27:11 +0000 (UTC) X-User-ID: 1mtNA9TfeDwJDWFipjl2Yhj7pVAj98YifKGByB7+GtI= X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" Cancel-Lock: sha1:pzaO7qyXDt7gOsKnYelUf6VzDDk= sha1:3QWw/IvkF9mbSMi1Too4qayf88M= User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-NNTP-Posting-Host: fZal4++29X67BIeiJmWGJonYs3hVXoJudIT2Jc76XXM= Original-Xref: news.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:160656 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:56004 Archived-At: On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:28:19 -0700 (PDT) Xah Lee wrote: XL> On Jul 28, 12:57 pm, Ted Zlatanov wrote: >> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 08:02:09 -0700 (PDT)XahLee wrote: XL> The cost of changing emacs's notation from “M-‹key›” to “Alt+‹key›” in XL> emacs's manual is about maybe 4 hour's work by a few interactive find- XL> replace operations in emacs, helped with eye balling. >> XL> There is basically no cost to users. Any new user will immediately XL> understand “Alt+‹key›” and perhaps feel this is a great improvement. XL> Old emacs users might get a mental shock for the first hour when their XL> hear about this change in emacs 23's change log, that's about it. Same XL> for “C-” vs “Ctrl+” notation. >> >> OK, since you're not even remotely connected to reality, I'll drop this >> topic. XL> I tried to answer your question. If you think the cost is 4 hours of work and none to the users, I think you're disconnected from reality (or have no experience writing manuals, software, and doing user support). >> You don't understand. I am against this change (for reasons I listed), >> but I encourage you to submit it through the proper channels if you want >> to have any chance of making it happen. Otherwise you're wasting >> everyone's time. XL> I'm aware you are against the change. I thought i answered your XL> question though. No need be rude ok? I tried not to. My point is that debating here is not going to make the change happen. If you feel strongly, propose the change and discuss it through the proper channels. I am not being rude. XL> I have interest in discussion. You are the one first started the issue XL> about my use of the Alt+‹key› notation in this message: XL> http://groups.google.com/group/gnu.emacs.help/msg/e8592f0da7dec5e1? XL> I replied to answer your complain. It's not a complaint, it's a correction based on the Emacs manual. >> I go by what's in the Emacs manual. You go by your opinion. Which do >> you think is more useful to a user? XL> Emacs manual is written by people, and it solicits corrections and XL> suggestions. XL> Any manual, improves by corrections and suggestions. Books works that XL> way too. Many of the corrections and suggestions are from the readers, XL> such as you and me. I agree. Make the suggestion through the proper channels; meanwhile let's keep using Meta when we help users (feel free to make a note that Alt is the default key bound to that modifier on most modern systems). Otherwise you're not helping users as much as you could, and you'll keep getting corrected. Ted