Re: [External] : Re: Discuss new features/enhancements or large changes for users in emacs-devel [was My resignation from Emacs development]

[Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>]

> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
> CC: "rms@gnu.org" <rms@gnu.org>, "adam@alphapapa.net" <adam@alphapapa.net>,
>         "emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2024 21:09:21 +0000
> 
> > > In bug thread 73853 I wrote this about it:
> > >
> > >   I don't understand why language-design discussions,
> > >   even major ones sometimes, are carried out in
> > >   debbugs and not always in emacs-devel@gnu.org.
> > 
> > Bug#73853 was not about language-design decisions, it was about
> > deprecating a macro.
> 
> The bug might not have been about language-design,
> but some of the bug thread was - which is the point
> here.

That people participating in a discussion bring up arguments based on
language design doesn't necessarily (and generally shouldn't) make the
discussion to be about language design.  Language design is a tangent
in a discussion about deprecating a macro.

> My post that I quoted (above) was a +1 support for
> a post from Jonas Bernoulli which was largely about
> the same point being discussed here, now.  E.g.:
> 
>   This could have been prevented if more people
>   (including non-debbugs and non-emacs-devel regulars)
>   were given a chance to think about the problem
>   and time to articulate their concerns and proposals,
>   before facts were created.  Or even if the people
>   who did take part in past conversations had spend
>   more time actually talking things through.

The quality and efficiency of a discussion don't necessarily improve
by asking more people to participate.  The main consideration for
having discussions on emacs-devel rather than elsewhere is because we
think we have the moral obligation to make it known to more people,
even if this makes the discussion much less effective, as it many
times does.  Thus, claiming that opening a discussion will necessarily
make the decisions better is basically missing the point.

Also, you were part of the discussion from its very beginning, but
never objected to the changes, until Jonas chimed in, much later.

> > And you were part of that discussion since its
> > beginning.
> 
> Once again, it's not about me.

You are one example of people who keep criticizing our decision-making
process, so looking into your participation in that case is very
relevant.