From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Calling (package-initialize) sooner during initialization Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 12:40:32 -0700 Message-ID: <8626DA45-0F03-4DF7-AEF5-460ABFE3BD73@gmail.com> References: <87383xk4ia.fsf@taylan.uni.cx> <87d22zi69k.fsf@taylan.uni.cx> <878udmj2gu.fsf@taylan.uni.cx> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B018D9FB-B907-432E-837A-04B1C5ACFCE3" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1429558854 27295 80.91.229.3 (20 Apr 2015 19:40:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 19:40:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel To: bruce.connor.am@gmail.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 20 21:40:45 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YkHYh-0003bB-9M for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2015 21:40:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55149 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YkHYg-0003FF-On for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2015 15:40:42 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52345) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YkHYc-0003Cw-IB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2015 15:40:39 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YkHYY-0004WF-C3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2015 15:40:38 -0400 Original-Received: from p3plsmtpa07-02.prod.phx3.secureserver.net ([173.201.192.231]:48318) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YkHYY-0004Vw-35 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2015 15:40:34 -0400 Original-Received: from [172.16.12.255] ([50.194.51.50]) by p3plsmtpa07-02.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id JKgY1q00W14zK7W01KgZoG; Mon, 20 Apr 2015 12:40:33 -0700 X-Sender: chad@lonesharkgames.com In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 173.201.192.231 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:185729 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail=_B018D9FB-B907-432E-837A-04B1C5ACFCE3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On 20 Apr 2015, at 11:38, Artur Malabarba = wrote: >=20 > > I do wonder if all of this can be avoided by teaching users to > > insert `use-package lines/snippets/etc into their .emacs, instead > > of `require. It would also address some slow-start issues at the > > same time. >=20 > I started this thread because I was tired of telling people to add = package-initialize to their init file, and you want to teach them to use = use-package? :-) >=20 Thats fair, but (in case its not clear), Im suggesting that we try to move everyone away from ever saying Add this line to .emacs: (require, and *instead* get them to say the very similar Add this line to .emacs: (use-package. The hope (unsupported by actual evidence, of course) is that its a simple enough change that its not as difficult as telling people how to find the right point in their init file to put package-initialize w.r.t. the various `require lines, which move around. As an additional benefit, emacs will start faster, and the users init file will naturally tell them where to customize that package. (In a potential future, we could even have customize or a replacement add the options to the use-package statement directly - but thats down the road). > The point is that users shouldn't run into trouble for doing such = basic configurations. If they have to ask for help on this then I we've = already failed. >=20 Agreed. My hope was to get people to suggest an equally-simple but better alternative to `require in .emacs (which is already something that wed like to avoid). Hope that helps. Sorry to add to the noise if not. Thanks! ~Chad --Apple-Mail=_B018D9FB-B907-432E-837A-04B1C5ACFCE3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
On 20 Apr 2015, at 11:38, Artur Malabarba <bruce.connor.am@gmail.com> wrote:

> I do wonder if all of this can be avoided by teaching = users to
> insert `use-package lines/snippets/etc into their .emacs, = instead
> of `require. It would also address some slow-start issues at the
> same time.

I started this thread = because I was tired of telling people to add package-initialize to their = init file, and you want to teach them to use use-package? :-) =

Thats fair, but (in case its not = clear), Im suggesting that we try
to move everyone away from = ever saying Add this line to .emacs:
(require, and *instead* = get them to say the very similar Add this
line to .emacs: = (use-package.

The hope (unsupported = by actual evidence, of course) is that its a
simple enough = change that its not as difficult as telling people
how to find = the right point in their init file to put = package-initialize
w.r.t. the various `require lines, which = move around. As an additional
benefit, emacs will start = faster, and the users init file will
naturally tell them where = to customize that package. (In a potential
future, we could = even have customize or a replacement add the options
to the = use-package statement directly - but thats down the road).

The point is that = users shouldn't run into trouble for doing such basic configurations. If = they have to ask for help on this then I we've already failed.

Agreed. My hope = was to get people to suggest an equally-simple but
better alternative to `require in .emacs (which is already = something
that wed like to avoid).

Hope that helps. Sorry = to add to the noise if not. Thanks!
~Chad



= --Apple-Mail=_B018D9FB-B907-432E-837A-04B1C5ACFCE3--