From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.auctex.devel,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: CVS repository synchronization for RefTeX Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 08:43:54 +0100 Message-ID: <861wmdq3et.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> References: <87k60b7hv5.fsf@neutrino.caeruleus.net> <87sley46bb.fsf@neutrino.caeruleus.net> <87wt491b46.fsf@neutrino.caeruleus.net> <854praka6x.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1167723856 13611 80.91.229.12 (2 Jan 2007 07:44:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 07:44:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: auctex-devel@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Original-X-From: auctex-devel-bounces+gead-auctex-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 02 08:44:14 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: gead-auctex-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1H1eJi-0006Ns-1I for gead-auctex-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 08:44:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1eJh-0006Ue-FN for gead-auctex-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 02:44:13 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1H1eJc-0006SL-Gc for auctex-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 02:44:08 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1H1eJb-0006Px-E3 for auctex-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 02:44:08 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1eJb-0006Pl-7Q for auctex-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 02:44:07 -0500 Original-Received: from [62.67.228.11] (helo=pc3.berlin.powerweb.de) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1H1eJa-00054x-DL for auctex-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 02:44:06 -0500 Original-Received: from quinscape.de (pd95b0fdb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.91.15.219]) by pc3.berlin.powerweb.de (8.9.3p3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26576 for ; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 08:43:57 +0100 X-Delivered-To: Original-Received: (qmail 21084 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2007 07:44:02 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (HELO lola.quinscape.zz) ([10.0.3.43]) (envelope-sender ) by ns.quinscape.de (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 2 Jan 2007 07:44:02 -0000 Original-Received: by lola.quinscape.zz (Postfix, from userid 1001) id EE6B423861; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 08:43:54 +0100 (CET) Original-To: rms@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Mon\, 01 Jan 2007 22\:09\:59 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: auctex-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for AUCTeX developers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: auctex-devel-bounces+gead-auctex-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: auctex-devel-bounces+gead-auctex-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.auctex.devel:1503 gmane.emacs.devel:64630 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > The > HEAD of CC mode is _much_ less suited to be released with Emacs 22 if > I have understood things correctly. > > When packages are maintained inside Emacs, people work on development > somewhat differently, implementing improvements with an eye towards > releasing them in the next Emacs release. Uh, reality check. The situation with RefTeX is that nobody works on it any which way except Carsten, and he is passing on the buck because he no longer has time for it. So the current situation is that RefTeX is not maintained, whether in Emacs or outside of it, and that is what we have to start with. Now the question is where we can hope to get the most attention for it. In the Emacs repository, we have a tex-mode.el that gets very little attention from Emacs developers. Mainly Stefan Monnier if I am not mistaken. If one takes a look at who did changes to RefTeX in the past, it is very basically a one-man show, more so than tex-mode.el. RefTeX's approach is an "all-around" one, similar to AUCTeX's. At the current point of time, RefTeX can only be used for LaTeX, and there are very few people actually writing LaTeX in Emacs without using AUCTeX. Those that prefer using the minimal tex-mode.el are not usually the kind of people that use comprehensive tools like RefTeX (I seem to remember that Carsten did not know of anybody using RefTeX at the current point of time with tex-mode.el or other LaTeX modes). RefTeX even has its own section in the AUCTeX quick reference sheets, and there are a few references to it in the AUCTeX manual. Ultimately, I hope that the point will become mostly moot by AUCTeX being folded into Emacs. However, I still think a separate repository like with Gnus makes sense, and the time frame for folding AUCTeX into Emacs will probably be still years because of copyright paper reasons (we are progressing there, but not really fast). It is my opinion that the chances of RefTeX getting more development done on will be better with RefTeX in the AUCTeX repository rather than Emacs. So I'd definitely prefer a solution where the Emacs CVS contained mostly a variant of RefTeX intended for release with Emacs only. Having the RefTeX infrastructure scattered across the Emacs CVS repository will rather get us fewer developers willing to actively touch it than even the current situation. I mean, let us just ask: are there any Emacs developers listening who can imagine themselves working on RefTeX? If so, would they think using the Emacs CVS more convenient for them than the AUCTeX repository? Of those who would consider working on RefTeX, how many have an assignment and/or CVS write access for Emacs, and how many for AUCTeX? -- David Kastrup