From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Multi-tty design (Re: Reordering etc/NEWS) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 15:35:26 +0200 Message-ID: <861whai9k1.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> References: <86d513r2i1.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> <861whjr097.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> <200705141648.l4EGmmvW007675@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <85bqgngvos.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <200705141819.l4EIJLPr009832@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <85ps53fcm0.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <200705142004.l4EK4DHg012188@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <85lkfrf91x.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <200705142102.l4EL2pHK013655@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <4649D75C.2090905@lorentey.hu> <464A6144.10905@lorentey.hu> <86ejlfpfdj.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> <861whepoq7.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> <868xbmmbji.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> <858xbjq320.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1179754541 20175 80.91.229.12 (21 May 2007 13:35:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 13:35:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Andreas Schwab , Dan Nicolaescu , Karoly Lorentey , joakim@verona.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 21 15:35:39 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Hq82z-0002l4-Lu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 15:35:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq82z-000244-6h for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 09:35:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq82v-00022e-2P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 09:35:33 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq82s-0001yt-Gv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 09:35:31 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq82s-0001ye-B5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 09:35:30 -0400 Original-Received: from pc3.berlin.powerweb.de ([62.67.228.11]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hq82r-0007Dl-R9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 09:35:30 -0400 Original-Received: from quinscape.de (dslnet.212-29-44.ip210.dokom.de [212.29.44.210] (may be forged)) by pc3.berlin.powerweb.de (8.9.3p3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14245 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 15:35:20 +0200 X-Delivered-To: Original-Received: (qmail 26460 invoked from network); 21 May 2007 13:35:26 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (HELO lola.quinscape.zz) ([10.0.3.43]) (envelope-sender ) by ns.quinscape.de (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 21 May 2007 13:35:26 -0000 Original-Received: by lola.quinscape.zz (Postfix, from userid 1001) id D11BC8F832; Mon, 21 May 2007 15:35:26 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Mon\, 21 May 2007 09\:15\:30 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/23.0.51 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:71508 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >>>> Which is easier if `initial-environment' is called >>>> `process-environment'... >>> Well, the opposite is true for existing code that adds stuff to >>> `process-environment'. I believe such code is a lot more >>> widespread. >> If the way this addition is done is by virtue of "setenv", we can >> cater for it. > > I was thinking of (let ((process-environment (cons FOO > process-environment))) Do we actually have code like this around? It would appear somewhat strange in pre-multitty since it more or less assumes that process-environment can contain multiple mentions of environment variables with only the first taking effect. At my current computer, I have multitty checked out. I suppose I should try setting up some other system that keeps multiple branches around concurrently. >> As written in a separate posting: I'd prefer not to have different >> notions of terminal-local and client-local. > > Yes, the argument made sense. I think we had better try to stick to > only one such notion. Since we already have the notion of terminal, > we should just stick with it. We will probably want to define that > we can have two different "pty1" terminals (corresponding to two > different emacclient sessions). I think it'd be more difficult to > do the same with machine:0.0 displays, but if we want and can do > that, I don't see why I'd oppose it. We'll need some good strategy for making xterm-mouse-mode and tmouse-mode be able to show useful behavior. Never mind backwards compatibility for those: we need _some_ way where they do what can be considered "works as expected" without too many contortions. I am not sure whether it would help or not merging multitty into the trunk for this. I don't want people to waste time on hacking things to work with interfaces of multitty that will certainly change, but at some point of time we will need to gather extensive experience, and that means that we should stay open to the possibility of design changes even when the stuff is in trunk. -- David Kastrup