From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: New start up splash screen annoyance... Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:34:53 +0200 Message-ID: <861wcw3s2q.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> References: <87sl5n5yem.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87fy1nbe4f.fsf@jurta.org> <86myvu2zw1.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> <20070912093913.GB12104@saeurebad.de> <87wsuum8qw.fsf@jurta.org> <85abrn9ini.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <85d4wh3kf9.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <851wcw1qht.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87lkb4t3wv.fsf@kfs-lx.testafd.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1190129881 1117 80.91.229.12 (18 Sep 2007 15:38:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:38:01 +0000 (UTC) Cc: larsi@gnus.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 18 17:37:48 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IXf6c-0006Zs-MP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:35:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXf6Z-000219-02 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:35:15 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IXf6V-0001z8-J0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:35:11 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IXf6Q-0001xH-Dw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:35:10 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXf6Q-0001xE-8v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:35:06 -0400 Original-Received: from pc3.berlin.powerweb.de ([62.67.228.11]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IXf6O-0003sk-Ng for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:35:06 -0400 Original-Received: from quinscape.de (dslnet.212-29-44.ip210.dokom.de [212.29.44.210] (may be forged)) by pc3.berlin.powerweb.de (8.9.3p3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22572 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:34:45 +0200 X-Delivered-To: Original-Received: (qmail 28267 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2007 15:34:53 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (HELO lola.quinscape.zz) ([10.0.3.43]) (envelope-sender ) by ns.quinscape.de (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 18 Sep 2007 15:34:53 -0000 Original-Received: by lola.quinscape.zz (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E75028F8ED; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:34:53 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <87lkb4t3wv.fsf@kfs-lx.testafd.dk> (Kim F. Storm's message of "Tue\, 18 Sep 2007 17\:00\:00 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/23.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Detected-Kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:79208 Archived-At: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes: > I still don't see why we cannot simply output a (possibly rather > verbose) message in the echo area when emacs is started with a file > name arg. > > Such a message disappears automatically on the first key-press, so > even though some users may still find it annoying, it doesn't get in > the way of editing the file. It would likely need to be somewhat more persistent: I know that Debian Emacsen will usually output messages when loading additionally installed Emacs packages which would likely clear out the echo area message. But maybe there is a point in the load order where we can place the message in a manner where it will persist reasonably well. In case this is not reliable, I had proposed two different ways of working around this (which both more or less got lost in the heat). a) use an idle hook (triggered on 5 seconds of idleness) that will replace the echo area message with the pointer as long as fewer than 30 seconds have passed (that would presumably help against autoload messages and/or garbage-collect messages and/or autosave messages). b) put a tooltip overlay for 30 seconds over the whole buffer that ends up being displayed, or something equivalent. Tooltips are designed to be displayed in a manner that does not obstruct editing, so it might make sense to use the user interface intelligence (and developer fallout) that already went into promoting information without annoyance. In either case, we'll need a handy shortcut for the About screen (which is not yet there), and f1 C-a seems reasonable. So to get a reliable non-obtrusive pointer to the splash screen for the case of starting with a filename, there is certainly some code to be written and tested. Discussing this proves to be hard at the moment. -- David Kastrup