Re: as for Calc and the math library

[Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>]

> From: arthur miller <arthur.miller@live.com>
> CC: "gerd.moellmann@gmail.com" <gerd.moellmann@gmail.com>, "nicolas@n16f.net"
> 	<nicolas@n16f.net>, "emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 05:00:06 +0000
> 
> > > Specifically, modify the `define-ffi-library' macro that emacs-ffi
> > > provides.
> > >
> > > Presently, it takes two arguments: a SYMBOL and a NAME.  I am proposing
> > > that it be updated to take three arguments: a SYMBOL, a NAME and a
> > > GPL-COMPATIBLE-P token.  A value of `t' would be necessary for creating
> > > a reference to the library.
> >
> > And if the value is not t, then the load will fail?  If so, then this
> > additional argument makes very little sense: you could instead say
> 
> It makes as much sense as it makes in C library. The token is basically an
> agreement between Emacs developers and the user not to load (link) closed
> source libraries into Emacs.

No.  What we need is the declaration _by_the_library_ being loaded
that it complies.  It is not an agreement between Emacs and the
library, it's a _requirement_ on our part that only the library itself
can fulfill.

> > that just by loading the library, the Lisp program which uses
> > emacs-ffi "declares" the loaded library to be GPL-compatible.  And we
> > are back where we began.
> 
> Yes, you could. It would just completely remove the barrier. However,
> the token is an explicit acknowledgment of Emacs policy and license terms, by
> the person who loads the library into Emacs.

No, see above.

> > The way we do it when loading modules requires the _loaded_ library to
> > declare itself compatible, by exporting a symbol of a certain name.
> > That is an action by the library we load, not by the Lisp program
> > which loads it.
> 
> True. But as you said yourself, a malicious user can easily cicrumvent it, even
> in C and there is nothing we can do to prevent them other than possibly taking
> legal actions against them.

Malicious agents can do all kinds of bad and even unlawful things, but
we are not under any obligations to cater to them.  They can always
change the Emacs source code to do whatever they like, but why do you
expect _us_ to do it for them, or make it easier for them to do it?

> If some company or a state would use Emacs or any other GNU program, as a
> front-end to closed-source software, there is very little one can do
> technically. It is only the license and the agreement that actually protects it.

That's a separate issue, although it could be related.  What is at
stake here is the fact that we don't want to encourage use of Emacs as
such a front-end.  That policy of the project is not new, it has many
different expressions, as already mentioned in this thread.  We don't
mention non-free software or fonts in our documentation, we don't
install changes that specifically favor or are designed to support
non-free programs, we don't link against non-free libraries except if
they are system libraries, we don't install functionality enhancements
on non-free systems if there's no equivalent on free systems, etc.
etc.  So I wonder what is this particular fuss all about.  Its
only effect is to waste maintainers' time and energy on replying to
these posts, and I very much doubt this was the intent.  So could we
please stop this Nth instance of the same discussions?  I cannot
change the project policies even if I wanted, because I promised to
uphold them when Richard nominated me.