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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: "Alfred M. Szmidt" <ams@gnu.org>
Cc: acorallo@gnu.org, acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: My resignation from Emacs development
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2024 21:47:22 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <861pz4pdx1.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E1tECQT-0004Kq-Qq@fencepost.gnu.org> (ams@gnu.org)

> From: "Alfred M. Szmidt" <ams@gnu.org>
> Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2024 14:01:13 -0500
> 
> Making a better Emacs is making sure that e.g. Alan feels welcome and
> happy to contribute, clearly that has failed completley.

That is true, on both counts.

Btw, making a better Emacs is also about making sure that e.g. Stefan
Monnier (as well as anyone else) feels welcome and happy to
contribute.

> That you, Eli, and Stefan K hide behind "oh, we don't think there is
> anything wrong, just take a break" and think it is just fine is
> beyond bewildering.

We don't hide.  We are several people who independently came to very
similar conclusions in this matter, while Alan disagreed.  It's not
like we conspired to make Alan unhappy.  And no one said that nothing
is wrong, quite the contrary.

> Please take a step back (instead of quoting the GKC), and consider
> what is going on currently is not working to the satisfaction of many
> people, to the point of very much appreciated hackers like Alan.

I don't think you have a complete view of what happened.  You didn't
participate in the relevant discussions, neither back in May nor now.
Moreover, part of the discussion was in private email between Alan and
myself, so only we two know what was said there.  I assure you that
every effort was made to accommodate Alan's complaints, at least on
the technical level (since we are talking about bugs and how to fix
them).

That we failed is a fact, but it's not like we didn't try not to fail,
and tried hard and for a long time.  It is thus at least unfair to
accuse us in dismissing this or in being insincere.  However, I don't
claim to be exceptionally good at this, so if someone is better and
can convince Alan to stay, by all means please go ahead, and my hat's
off to you if you succeed.

In any case, if you are right, and "what is going on currently is not
working to the satisfaction of many people", then I'd appreciate if
those people voiced their concerns, so that we could at least try to
improve the situation.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2024-11-21 19:47 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 122+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2024-11-20 15:13 My resignation from Emacs development Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-20 15:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-20 16:23 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-21  6:22   ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-11-21 10:05     ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-21 11:23       ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-11-21 11:40         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-21 10:29   ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-21 12:26     ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-20 16:42 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-11-20 17:04 ` tomas
2024-11-20 21:56 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-11-21  2:28 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-11-21 12:34   ` Tree-sitter maturity (was: My resignation from Emacs development) Peter Oliver
2024-11-23 13:41     ` Stefan Kangas
2024-11-24  2:10     ` Tree-sitter maturity Björn Bidar
     [not found]     ` <67428b3d.c80a0220.2f3036.adbdSMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>
2024-12-17 22:11       ` Yuan Fu
2024-12-18 13:34         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-19  1:40           ` Yuan Fu
2024-12-19  8:17             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-20  9:13             ` Björn Bidar
     [not found]             ` <6765355b.c80a0220.1a6b24.3117SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>
2024-12-20  9:29               ` Yuan Fu
2024-12-19 12:23           ` Peter Oliver
2024-12-19 12:42             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-19 13:15             ` Vincenzo Pupillo
2024-12-20  8:59           ` Björn Bidar
2024-11-21 13:01   ` My resignation from Emacs development Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-21 13:48     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-21 14:29       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-11-22  0:01         ` Po Lu
2024-11-22  7:03           ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-22  8:14             ` Robert Pluim
2024-11-22  8:32               ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-22 23:59               ` Po Lu
2024-11-23  6:39                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-21 16:29       ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-22  5:35     ` Adam Porter
2024-11-22  7:24       ` Madhu
2024-11-22  8:11         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-22  9:26           ` Madhu
2024-11-22 12:07             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-22 12:40           ` Stefan Kangas
2024-11-22 13:06           ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-22 13:39             ` Stefan Kangas
2024-11-22 14:25             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-25  4:28             ` Richard Stallman
2024-11-26 17:37               ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-12-13  4:35                 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-15 15:27                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-12-15 15:48                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-15 20:43                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-12-19  4:22                     ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-19  8:26                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-23 22:18           ` Andrea Corallo
2024-11-22 10:57       ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-22 23:19         ` Adam Porter
2024-11-26 19:01       ` Daniel Radetsky
2024-11-26 19:51         ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-27  2:18           ` Adam Porter
2024-11-27  9:36             ` Daniel Radetsky
2024-11-27  9:59             ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-30  3:52             ` Richard Stallman
2024-11-30  7:53               ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-30 16:22                 ` Discuss new features/enhancements or large changes for users in emacs-devel [was: My resignation from Emacs development] Drew Adams
2024-11-30 16:56                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-30 21:06                     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-12-01  6:00                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-03  7:26                 ` My resignation from Emacs development Richard Stallman
2024-12-03 13:33                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-30 16:21               ` Discuss new features/enhancements or large changes for users in emacs-devel [was My resignation from Emacs development] Drew Adams
2024-11-30 17:05                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-30 21:09                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-12-01  6:12                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-01 19:23                       ` Drew Adams
2024-12-03  7:25                   ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-03 13:32                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-06  4:48                       ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-02  4:09                 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-02 13:04                   ` Discuss new features/enhancements or large changes for users in emacs-devel Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-02 15:32                     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-12-05  5:08                     ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-05  6:33                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-02 15:29                   ` [External] : Re: Discuss new features/enhancements or large changes for users in emacs-devel [was My resignation from Emacs development] Drew Adams
2024-11-27  2:06         ` My resignation from Emacs development Adam Porter
2024-11-27  9:17           ` Daniel Radetsky
2024-11-22 15:36     ` Stefan Kangas
2024-11-22 17:48       ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-23 23:43     ` Stefan Monnier via Emacs development discussions.
2024-11-23  6:10   ` Richard Stallman
2024-11-23  7:48     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-23 11:06       ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-23 11:54         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-23 12:48           ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-23 23:59       ` Adam Porter
2024-12-01  3:50         ` Sean Whitton
2024-12-01  6:19           ` tomas
2024-11-24 18:12     ` Suhail Singh
2024-11-26  4:56       ` Richard Stallman
2024-11-26  7:38         ` Suhail Singh
2024-11-21  5:59 ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-11-22 11:36   ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-22 11:52     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-23 10:36       ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-23 11:31         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-21 13:39 ` Andrea Corallo
2024-11-21 19:01   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-11-21 19:19     ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-21 19:47     ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2024-11-21 19:40 ` Jim Porter
2024-11-24  4:35   ` Richard Stallman
2024-11-21 23:57 ` Po Lu
2024-11-22 17:26 ` On committing significant and/or controversial changes (was: My resignation from Emacs development) Ihor Radchenko
2024-11-22 17:47   ` Ship Mints
2024-11-22 19:04     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-24  2:35       ` On committing significant and/or controversial changes Björn Bidar
2024-11-24  4:41         ` Adam Porter
2024-11-30  2:16           ` Björn Bidar
     [not found]       ` <87ttbx73zu.fsf@>
2024-11-24  8:26         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-22 19:01   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-23  6:10 ` My resignation from Emacs development Richard Stallman
2024-11-23  8:50   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-23  6:10 ` Richard Stallman

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