From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs vista build failures Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 01:11:26 +0200 Message-ID: <85y73u96jl.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <36366a980807101702r5677d096g8e62ef5b3e278868@mail.gmail.com> <4eb0089f0807121340x5e26f6dbve03ef50b238f3a3a@mail.gmail.com> <87k5fph5rh.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20080713214648.GB1076@muc.de> <20080714195651.GF3445@muc.de> <487C5FA3.4070603@emf.net> <87zloggji9.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <878wvxxkn6.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87ej5oz4pb.fsf@saeurebad.de> <87vdyzxype.fsf@saeurebad.de> <871w1njq32.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87iquzxgtk.fsf@saeurebad.de> <4884CFEF.8040404@gmail.com> <87ej5nxew2.fsf@saeurebad.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216681910 28853 80.91.229.12 (21 Jul 2008 23:11:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 23:11:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Johannes Weiner , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 22 01:12:38 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KL4YS-0002yP-SY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 01:12:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45937 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KL4XZ-000273-KW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:11:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KL4XV-00026p-QX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:11:33 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KL4XT-00026V-SD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:11:33 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=48716 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KL4XT-00026S-NG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:11:31 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-13.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.53]:51444) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KL4XQ-0001dX-7g; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:11:28 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-15-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-15-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.32]) by mail-in-13.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA6031E4F4E; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 01:11:26 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-in-17.arcor-online.net (mail-in-17.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.57]) by mail-in-15-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2DAC724268; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 01:11:26 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from lola.goethe.zz (dslb-084-061-050-208.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.61.50.208]) by mail-in-17.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D3942BC9F4; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 01:11:26 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 309D51C1346B; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 01:11:26 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:47:49 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.3/7771/Mon Jul 21 23:09:37 2008 on mail-in-17.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:101141 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Johannes Weiner >> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:37:17 +0200 >> Cc: lord@emf.net, rms@gnu.org, drobinow@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, >> acm@muc.de, Miles Bader >> >> To be honest, I couldn't give the slightest about w32. It's a pile of >> crap that should have never seen the light of day, all political issues >> left aside and I, FWIW, would not consider it when designing software. > > Such arrogant nonsense can only be forgiven if it's spoken out of > utter ignorance. Last time you took a good look at a Windows system > was probably in 1998. Wake up! a lot has changed since then. > Nowadays, w32 systems don't fall short of Gnu/Linux in any aspect: > stability, usability, user-friendliness, etc. There is no reliable way to quote stuff you want to pass into a "system" call. In fact, it is not even guaranteed that calling "exec" will not mesh up arguments or add or remove quoting. For a programmer, this is a situation nothing short of ridiculous. > And the current trend in Gnu/Linux systems to mimic the Windows UI, > feel, and touch bring more and more the worst parts of Windows to > Gnu/Linux systems, to the degree that in a very near future they will > be indistinguishable, anyway. The UI is one thing: at least this has been through usability labs. But the misbegotten programming APIs have not had the same blessing. And the degree to which they are messed up at times is utterly amazing to the unprepared observer. There are consequences: for example, call-process and its ilk don't work reliably. You can't expect the arguments given to them to actually make it unmolested to the argc/argv of the called program's "main". And that is not good. In my book, there is hardly an excuse for such misbehavior. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum