* RE: Docstring line length
2005-12-21 0:54 ` Luc Teirlinck
@ 2005-12-21 1:37 ` Drew Adams
2005-12-21 7:21 ` Henrik Enberg
2005-12-21 18:52 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-21 3:12 ` Ken Raeburn
2005-12-21 4:54 ` Johan Bockgård
2 siblings, 2 replies; 37+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2005-12-21 1:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
I'm sure most people do not do as I do, but I'm not sure
that most people use fixed 80-char frames. Do we have any
user data to go on?
80 char frames are the default configuration of Emacs.
Sure. But do you think most people use that? Maybe so.
Fair enough. How long is too long?
67 for the first line. That is a given. 68 already forces an ugly
continuation line in the apropos output.
Only because we use 11 or 12 chars for " Variable: ". If we used " Fun: ",
" Cmd: ", and " Var: " (and " Opt: " for option), then up to 72
characters could be in the first line. Those abbreviations are clear enough
(and large enough as buttons) - no?
If we indented one space instead of two, then up to 73 chars could be used.
If we allow for " Face: " in the future, then we're back down to 71 or 72
max. 70 is a good guideline.
(In any case, many Plist entries already wrap as ugly continuation lines, so
they need to be fixed first.)
BTW - Wouldn't " Props: " be better than " Plist: "?
To me 70 for most subsequent lines with an absolute limit of 79 seems
better than the current 60. But I do not believe that this is a
really big deal.
[I meant that whether the convention for "most" subsequent lines is at
most 60 or at most 70 colums is no big deal (to me).]
No, of course it's not a big deal. But a guideline has been published and
the question was raised (by Bill about 60, by me about 67). If there is no
guideline, the result will be (more) variety (inconsistency). I vote for a
70-max guideline for all lines, getting rid of "most", and shortening the
button text in *Apropos*.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Docstring line length
2005-12-21 1:37 ` Drew Adams
@ 2005-12-21 7:21 ` Henrik Enberg
2005-12-21 18:52 ` Richard M. Stallman
1 sibling, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread
From: Henrik Enberg @ 2005-12-21 7:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-devel
> 80 char frames are the default configuration of Emacs.
>
> Sure. But do you think most people use that? Maybe so.
Every console I've ever met is 80 chars wide by default, and consoles
are a lot harder to change. Please don't advocate wider than 80 lines,
it makes life harder for a lot of users without giving any real
benefit to the rest.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Docstring line length
2005-12-21 1:37 ` Drew Adams
2005-12-21 7:21 ` Henrik Enberg
@ 2005-12-21 18:52 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-21 20:24 ` Drew Adams
1 sibling, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread
From: Richard M. Stallman @ 2005-12-21 18:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-devel
(In any case, many Plist entries already wrap as ugly continuation lines, so
they need to be fixed first.)
Could you show me an example?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* RE: Docstring line length
2005-12-21 18:52 ` Richard M. Stallman
@ 2005-12-21 20:24 ` Drew Adams
2005-12-21 21:44 ` Lennart Borgman
2005-12-22 5:47 ` Docstring line length Richard M. Stallman
0 siblings, 2 replies; 37+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2005-12-21 20:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
(In any case, many Plist entries already wrap as ugly
continuation lines, so they need to be fixed first.)
Could you show me an example?
By "fixed" I meant to wrap (fill) each Plist entry.
emacs -q
(In GNU Emacs 22.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
of 2005-06-26 on NONIQPC
X server distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
configured using `configure --with-gcc
(3.3) --cflags -I../../jpeg-6b-3/include -I../../libpng-1.2.8/include -I../.
./tiff-3.6.1-2/include -I../../xpm-nox-4.2.0/include -I../../zlib-1.2.2/incl
ude')
M-x apropos RET RET
The following PList entries are longer than 80 chars (there are also plenty
of Function, Command, and Variable entries that are longer than 80 chars,
but the Plist entries, at least, could presumably be filled automatically):
Info-goto-emacs-command-node
Plist: info-file event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
Info-goto-emacs-key-command-node
Plist: info-file event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
abbrev-mode
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
custom-group standard-value variable-documentation custom-type
custom-requests
after-save-hook
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-options custom-type
custom-requests
apropos
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
group-documentation custom-prefix custom-group autoload
apropos-command
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
button-category-symbol autoload
auto-compression-mode
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-set custom-type
custom-requests
auto-hscroll-mode
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-version custom-type
custom-requests
auto-save-file-name-transforms
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
backspace
Plist: modifier-cache event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
ascii-character
backward-delete-char-untabify-method
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
bahai-holidays
Plist: risky-local-variable variable-documentation custom-autoload
custom-loads
before-save-hook
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-options custom-type
custom-requests
beginning-of-buffer
Plist: error-conditions error-message event-symbol-element-mask
event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
blink-cursor-delay
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-tag custom-type
custom-requests
blink-cursor-interval
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-tag custom-type
custom-requests
blink-cursor-mode
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-set custom-type
custom-requests event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
buffers-menu-show-directories
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-set custom-type
custom-requests
buffers-menu-show-status
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-set custom-type
custom-requests
case-fold-search
Plist: standard-value event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache variable-documentation
christian-holidays
Plist: risky-local-variable variable-documentation custom-autoload
custom-loads
clear
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
ascii-character
clipboard-kill-region
Plist: menu-enable event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
clipboard-kill-ring-save
Plist: menu-enable event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
clipboard-yank
Plist: menu-enable event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
column-number-mode
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
standard-value variable-documentation custom-set custom-type custom-requests
comment-region
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
menu-enable
confirm-kill-emacs
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
cua-mode
Plist: variable-documentation custom-autoload custom-loads
event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
current-language-environment
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-links custom-set
custom-get custom-type custom-requests
cursor
Plist: face face-defface-spec face-documentation custom-version
custom-group face-no-inherit group-documentation
cursor-in-non-selected-windows
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-tag custom-type
custom-set custom-requests
debug-on-error
Plist: standard-value event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache variable-documentation
debug-on-quit
Plist: standard-value event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache variable-documentation
default
Plist: face face-defface-spec face-documentation event-symbol-element-mask
event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
default-button
Plist: face mouse-face keymap type action help-echo evaporate
rear-nonsticky button
default-input-method
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-links custom-type
custom-dependencies custom-requests
delay-mode-hooks
Plist: variable-documentation permanent-local edebug-form-spec
lisp-indent-function
delete
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
ascii-character
delete-frame
Plist: event-kind event-symbol-elements event-symbol-element-mask
modifier-cache
delete-other-windows
Plist: isearch-scroll event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
devanagari
Plist: coding-system coding-system-define-form eol-type
indian-glyph-code-offset
dired
Plist: custom-group event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache menu-enable group-documentation custom-links autoload
dired-copy-preserve-time
Plist: variable-documentation custom-autoload custom-loads standard-value
custom-type custom-requests
dired-directory
Plist: variable-documentation face face-defface-spec face-documentation
custom-version
dired-dnd-protocol-alist
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
dired-dwim-target
Plist: variable-documentation custom-autoload custom-loads standard-value
custom-type custom-requests
dired-keep-marker-copy
Plist: variable-documentation custom-autoload custom-loads standard-value
custom-type custom-requests
dired-keep-marker-hardlink
Plist: variable-documentation custom-autoload custom-loads standard-value
custom-type custom-requests
dired-keep-marker-rename
Plist: variable-documentation custom-autoload custom-loads standard-value
custom-type custom-requests
dired-keep-marker-symlink
Plist: variable-documentation custom-autoload custom-loads standard-value
custom-type custom-requests
dired-listing-switches
Plist: variable-documentation custom-autoload custom-loads standard-value
custom-type custom-requests
dired-ls-F-marks-symlinks
Plist: variable-documentation custom-autoload custom-loads standard-value
custom-type custom-requests
dired-mark
Plist: group-documentation custom-prefix custom-group face
face-defface-spec face-documentation custom-version
dired-trivial-filenames
Plist: variable-documentation custom-autoload custom-loads standard-value
custom-type custom-requests
display
Plist: format-list-atomic-p custom-group event-symbol-element-mask
event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
display-hourglass
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-tag custom-type
custom-requests
dnd-open-file-other-window
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-version custom-type
custom-requests
dnd-protocol-alist
Plist: variable-documentation custom-autoload custom-loads standard-value
custom-version custom-type custom-requests
emacs-lisp-mode-hook
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-options custom-type
custom-requests
enable-local-eval
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-requests
risky-local-variable
encoded-kbd-mode
Plist: variable-documentation custom-autoload custom-loads permanent-local
standard-value custom-set custom-type custom-requests autoload
end-of-buffer
Plist: error-conditions error-message event-symbol-element-mask
event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
escape
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
display-table-slot ascii-character
eval-expression-debug-on-error
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
eval-expression-print-length
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
eval-region
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
menu-enable
face-font-family-alternatives
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-tag custom-type
custom-set custom-requests
face-font-registry-alternatives
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-tag custom-type
custom-version custom-set custom-requests
face-font-selection-order
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-tag custom-type
custom-set custom-requests
fill
Plist: custom-group event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache group-documentation custom-links
fill-nobreak-predicate
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-options
custom-requests
find-file
Plist: group-documentation custom-group event-symbol-element-mask
event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
find-file-hook
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-options
custom-version custom-requests
find-file-suppress-same-file-warnings
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-version custom-type
custom-requests
find-file-wildcards
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-version custom-type
custom-requests
focus-follows-mouse
Variable: *Non-nil if window system changes focus when you move the mouse.
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
font-lock-mode
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
variable-documentation
frame-background-mode
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-set custom-type
custom-requests
general-holidays
Plist: risky-local-variable variable-documentation custom-autoload
custom-loads
global-font-lock-mode
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-set custom-type
custom-requests
gnus
Plist: custom-group event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
header-line
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache face
face-defface-spec face-documentation custom-version
hebrew-holidays
Plist: risky-local-variable variable-documentation custom-autoload
custom-loads
help
Plist: custom-group event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
hourglass-delay
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-tag custom-type
custom-requests
iconify-frame
Plist: event-kind event-symbol-elements event-symbol-element-mask
modifier-cache
idle-update-delay
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
indent-region
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
menu-enable
info
Plist: info-file event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
isearch
Plist: group-documentation custom-links custom-prefix custom-group face
face-defface-spec face-documentation
isearch-lazy-highlight-cleanup
Plist: variable-documentation byte-obsolete-variable byte-compile
byte-obsolete-info
islamic-holidays
Plist: risky-local-variable variable-documentation custom-autoload
custom-loads
keyboard-coding-system
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-links
custom-set custom-version custom-requests
kp-0 through kp-9
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
ascii-character
kp-add
Plist: ascii-character event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
kp-decimal
Plist: ascii-character event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
kp-divide
Plist: ascii-character event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
kp-enter
Plist: ascii-character event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
kp-multiply
Plist: ascii-character event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
kp-separator
Plist: ascii-character event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
kp-space
Plist: ascii-character event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
kp-subtract
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
ascii-character
kp-tab
Plist: ascii-character event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
large-file-warning-threshold
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-version custom-type
custom-requests
lazy-highlight
Plist: custom-group group-documentation custom-prefix custom-version face
face-defface-spec face-documentation
left-fringe
Plist: x-frame-parameter event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
line-number-mode
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
standard-value variable-documentation custom-set custom-type custom-requests
linefeed
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
ascii-character
lisp-mode-hook
Variable: Hook run when entering Lisp mode.
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-options custom-type
custom-requests
list-buffers
Plist: isearch-scroll event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
local-holidays
Plist: risky-local-variable variable-documentation custom-autoload
custom-loads
ls-lisp-support-shell-wildcards
Plist: variable-documentation custom-autoload custom-loads standard-value
custom-type custom-requests
make-frame-visible
Plist: event-kind event-symbol-elements event-symbol-element-mask
modifier-cache
menu
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache face
face-defface-spec face-documentation custom-version custom-group
menu-bar-mode
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-autoload custom-loads
event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache custom-set
custom-type custom-requests
mode-line
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache face
face-defface-spec face-documentation custom-version
mode-require-final-newline
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
mouse-1
Plist: modifier-cache event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
event-kind
mouse-1-click-follows-link
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-version custom-type
custom-requests
mouse-1-click-in-non-selected-windows
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
mouse-buffer-menu-mode-mult
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
mouse-drag-copy-region
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
mouse-movement
Plist: event-kind event-symbol-elements event-symbol-element-mask
modifier-cache
mouse-wheel-click-event
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-set
custom-requests
mouse-wheel-down-event
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-set
custom-requests
mouse-wheel-mode
Plist: variable-documentation custom-autoload custom-loads standard-value
custom-set custom-type custom-requests autoload
mouse-wheel-up-event
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-set
custom-requests
mule
Plist: custom-group event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
next
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
coding-system coding-system-define-form eol-type
next-error
Plist: group-documentation custom-version face face-defface-spec
face-documentation custom-group
next-error-highlight
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
next-error-highlight-no-select
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
next-line-add-newlines
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
normal-erase-is-backspace
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-set custom-requests
oriental-holidays
Plist: risky-local-variable variable-documentation custom-autoload
custom-loads
other-holidays
Plist: risky-local-variable variable-documentation custom-autoload
custom-loads
overwrite-mode
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
variable-documentation
query-replace
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache face
face-defface-spec face-documentation custom-version
query-replace-from-history-variable
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
query-replace-lazy-highlight
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
query-replace-skip-read-only
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
query-replace-to-history-variable
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
quit
Plist: error-conditions error-message event-symbol-element-mask
event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
read-mail-command
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
return
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
ascii-character event-kind
right-fringe
Plist: x-frame-parameter event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
rmail
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
custom-group
rmail-file-name
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
rmail-output-file-alist
Plist: risky-local-variable variable-documentation custom-autoload
custom-loads
safe-local-eval-forms
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-version custom-type
custom-requests
scroll-bar-mode
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-set
custom-requests
select-window
Plist: event-kind event-symbol-elements event-symbol-element-mask
modifier-cache
site-run-file
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-set
custom-requests
size-indication-mode
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-set custom-type
custom-requests event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
solar-holidays
Plist: risky-local-variable variable-documentation custom-autoload
custom-loads
split-window-vertically
Plist: isearch-scroll event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
switch-frame
Plist: event-kind event-symbol-elements event-symbol-element-mask
modifier-cache
tab
Plist: modifier-cache event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
ascii-character
temp-buffer-max-height
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
temp-buffer-resize-mode
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-set custom-type
custom-requests
text-mode-hook
Plist: custom-options standard-value variable-documentation custom-type
custom-requests
tool-bar
Plist: face face-defface-spec face-documentation custom-version
event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
tool-bar-mode
Plist: variable-documentation custom-autoload custom-loads standard-value
custom-set custom-type custom-requests autoload
tools
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
custom-group
tooltip
Plist: group-documentation custom-version custom-tag custom-group face
face-defface-spec face-documentation
tooltip-delay
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-tag custom-type
custom-requests
tooltip-frame-parameters
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-tag
custom-requests
tooltip-hide-delay
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-tag custom-type
custom-requests
tooltip-mode
Plist: variable-documentation custom-autoload custom-loads standard-value
custom-set custom-type custom-requests
tooltip-recent-seconds
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-tag custom-type
custom-requests
tooltip-short-delay
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-tag custom-type
custom-requests
tooltip-use-echo-area
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-tag
custom-requests
tooltip-x-offset
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-tag custom-type
custom-requests
tooltip-y-offset
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-tag custom-type
custom-requests
transient-mark-mode
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-set custom-type
custom-requests event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
truncate-lines
Plist: standard-value event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache variable-documentation
undo
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
custom-group
undo-ask-before-discard
Variable: If non-nil ask about discarding undo info for the current
command.
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
unify-8859-on-decoding-mode
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-set custom-type
custom-requests custom-version
unify-8859-on-encoding-mode
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-set custom-type
custom-requests custom-version
utf-8-compose-scripts
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-version custom-type
custom-requests
utf-fragment-on-decoding
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-set custom-version
custom-type custom-requests
utf-translate-cjk-mode
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-set custom-type
custom-version custom-requests
utf-translate-cjk-unicode-range
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-version custom-type
custom-set custom-requests
vc
Plist: custom-group event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
vc-handled-backends
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
vc-stay-local
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
vertical-border
Plist: face face-defface-spec face-documentation custom-version
display-table-slot
vertical-scroll-bar
Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
variable-documentation
view
Plist: custom-group event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements
modifier-cache
yank-excluded-properties
Plist: standard-value variable-documentation custom-type custom-version
custom-requests
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Docstring line length
2005-12-21 20:24 ` Drew Adams
@ 2005-12-21 21:44 ` Lennart Borgman
2005-12-22 5:46 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-22 20:43 ` Docstring line length Juri Linkov
2005-12-22 5:47 ` Docstring line length Richard M. Stallman
1 sibling, 2 replies; 37+ messages in thread
From: Lennart Borgman @ 2005-12-21 21:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-devel
Drew Adams wrote:
> (In any case, many Plist entries already wrap as ugly
> continuation lines, so they need to be fixed first.)
>
> Could you show me an example?
>
>By "fixed" I meant to wrap (fill) each Plist entry.
>
>
>abbrev-mode
> Plist: event-symbol-element-mask event-symbol-elements modifier-cache
>custom-group standard-value variable-documentation custom-type
>custom-requests
>
>
Does this small patch make it more readable:
Index: apropos.el
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/emacs/emacs/lisp/apropos.el,v
retrieving revision 1.111
diff -c -r1.111 apropos.el
*** apropos.el 29 Nov 2005 23:52:59 -0000 1.111
--- apropos.el 21 Dec 2005 21:14:58 -0000
***************
*** 85,91 ****
:group 'apropos
:type 'face)
! (defcustom apropos-label-face 'italic
"*Face for label (`Command', `Variable' ...) in Apropos output.
A value of nil means don't use any special font for them, and also
turns off mouse highlighting."
--- 85,91 ----
:group 'apropos
:type 'face)
! (defcustom apropos-label-face '(:underline t :foreground "blue" :slant
italic)
"*Face for label (`Command', `Variable' ...) in Apropos output.
A value of nil means don't use any special font for them, and also
turns off mouse highlighting."
***************
*** 976,990 ****
(if (stringp (setq i (nth i apropos-item)))
(progn
(insert " ")
! (insert-text-button (button-type-get type 'apropos-label)
! 'type type
! ;; Can't use the default button face, since
! ;; user may have changed the variable!
! ;; Just say `no' to variables containing faces!
! 'face apropos-label-face
! 'apropos-symbol (car apropos-item))
! (insert ": ")
! (insert (if do-keys (substitute-command-keys i) i))
(or (bolp) (terpri)))))
--- 976,992 ----
(if (stringp (setq i (nth i apropos-item)))
(progn
(insert " ")
! (let ((start (point)))
! (insert-text-button (button-type-get type 'apropos-label)
! 'type type
! ;; Can't use the default button face, since
! ;; user may have changed the variable!
! ;; Just say `no' to variables containing
faces!
! 'face apropos-label-face
! 'apropos-symbol (car apropos-item))
! (insert ": ")
! (insert (if do-keys (substitute-command-keys i) i))
! (fill-region start (point)))
(or (bolp) (terpri)))))
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Docstring line length
2005-12-21 21:44 ` Lennart Borgman
@ 2005-12-22 5:46 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-22 17:00 ` Legal papers for Emacs contributions (was: Re: Docstring line length) Giorgos Keramidas
2005-12-22 20:43 ` Docstring line length Juri Linkov
1 sibling, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread
From: Richard M. Stallman @ 2005-12-22 5:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-devel
I somehow thought we had legal papers from you, but I see that we
actually don't. So we had better not install any more of your changes
until that is taken care of. (I'll send you another message saying
how to do that.)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Legal papers for Emacs contributions (was: Re: Docstring line length)
2005-12-22 5:46 ` Richard M. Stallman
@ 2005-12-22 17:00 ` Giorgos Keramidas
2005-12-22 22:21 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-23 0:12 ` Legal papers for Emacs contributions David Kastrup
0 siblings, 2 replies; 37+ messages in thread
From: Giorgos Keramidas @ 2005-12-22 17:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-devel
Richard M. Stallman wrote:
I somehow thought we had legal papers from you, but I see that we
actually don't. So we had better not install any more of your changes
until that is taken care of. (I'll send you another message saying
how to do that.)
I apologize in advance if this is a FAQ, but I didn't have the time to
check all the details until now.
Are legal papers required for installing the FreeBSD/amd64 patch I came
up with a while ago too? It's relatively simple, and it would be nice
to have it included with the next release. Otherwise, we'd have to
commit it in the Ports tree of FreeBSD as a local diff :-/
- Giorgos
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Legal papers for Emacs contributions (was: Re: Docstring line length)
2005-12-22 17:00 ` Legal papers for Emacs contributions (was: Re: Docstring line length) Giorgos Keramidas
@ 2005-12-22 22:21 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-23 2:13 ` Giorgos Keramidas
2005-12-23 0:12 ` Legal papers for Emacs contributions David Kastrup
1 sibling, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread
From: Richard M. Stallman @ 2005-12-22 22:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-devel
Are legal papers required for installing the FreeBSD/amd64 patch I came
up with a while ago too?
Alas, I don't remember anything about it. Could you send it again?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Legal papers for Emacs contributions (was: Re: Docstring line length)
2005-12-22 22:21 ` Richard M. Stallman
@ 2005-12-23 2:13 ` Giorgos Keramidas
0 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread
From: Giorgos Keramidas @ 2005-12-23 2:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-devel
Are legal papers required for installing the FreeBSD/amd64 patch
I came up with a while ago too?
Alas, I don't remember anything about it. Could you send it again?
Yes, sure. I can be found online at:
http://people.freebsd.org/~keramida/emacs/22/freebsd-amd64+libgcc.patch
Here it is, inline to save you the hassle of downloading it:
%%%
Index: configure.in
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/emacs/emacs/configure.in,v
retrieving revision 1.399
diff -u -r1.399 configure.in
--- configure.in 25 Oct 2005 01:09:39 -0000 1.399
+++ configure.in 28 Oct 2005 21:54:46 -0000
@@ -238,6 +238,7 @@
case "${canonical}" in
alpha*-*-freebsd*) machine=alpha ;;
i[3456]86-*-freebsd*) machine=intel386 ;;
+ amd64-*-freebsd*|x86_64-*-freebsd*) machine=amdx86-64 ;;
esac
;;
Index: src/m/amdx86-64.h
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/emacs/emacs/src/m/amdx86-64.h,v
retrieving revision 1.8
diff -u -r1.8 amdx86-64.h
--- src/m/amdx86-64.h 7 Aug 2005 09:52:27 -0000 1.8
+++ src/m/amdx86-64.h 28 Oct 2005 21:54:46 -0000
@@ -100,11 +100,38 @@
/* Define XPNTR to avoid or'ing with DATA_SEG_BITS */
#undef DATA_SEG_BITS
+#ifdef __FreeBSD__
+
+/* The libraries for binaries native to the build host's architecture are
+ installed under /usr/lib in FreeBSD, and the ones that need special paths
+ are 32-bit compatibility libraries (installed under /usr/lib32). To build
+ a native binary of Emacs on FreeBSD/amd64 we can just point to /usr/lib. */
+
+#undef START_FILES
+#define START_FILES pre-crt0.o /usr/lib/crt1.o /usr/lib/crti.o
+
+/* The duplicate -lgcc is intentional in the definition of LIB_STANDARD.
+ The reason is that some functions in libgcc.a call functions from libc.a,
+ and some libc.a functions need functions from libgcc.a. Since most
+ versions of ld are one-pass linkers, we need to mention -lgcc twice,
+ or else we risk getting unresolved externals. */
+#undef LIB_STANDARD
+#define LIB_STANDARD -lgcc -lc -lgcc /usr/lib/crtn.o
+
+#else /* !__FreeBSD__ */
+
#undef START_FILES
#define START_FILES pre-crt0.o /usr/lib64/crt1.o /usr/lib64/crti.o
+/* The duplicate -lgcc is intentional in the definition of LIB_STANDARD.
+ The reason is that some functions in libgcc.a call functions from libc.a,
+ and some libc.a functions need functions from libgcc.a. Since most
+ versions of ld are one-pass linkers, we need to mention -lgcc twice,
+ or else we risk getting unresolved externals. */
#undef LIB_STANDARD
#define LIB_STANDARD -lgcc -lc -lgcc /usr/lib64/crtn.o
+
+#endif /* __FreeBSD__ */
/* arch-tag: 8a5e001d-e12e-4692-a3a6-0b15ba271c6e
(do not change this comment) */
%%%
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Legal papers for Emacs contributions
2005-12-22 17:00 ` Legal papers for Emacs contributions (was: Re: Docstring line length) Giorgos Keramidas
2005-12-22 22:21 ` Richard M. Stallman
@ 2005-12-23 0:12 ` David Kastrup
2005-12-23 2:15 ` Giorgos Keramidas
2005-12-24 2:36 ` Richard M. Stallman
1 sibling, 2 replies; 37+ messages in thread
From: David Kastrup @ 2005-12-23 0:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: Richard M. Stallman, emacs-devel
Giorgos Keramidas <keramida@ceid.upatras.gr> writes:
> Richard M. Stallman wrote:
>
> I somehow thought we had legal papers from you, but I see that we
> actually don't. So we had better not install any more of your changes
> until that is taken care of. (I'll send you another message saying
> how to do that.)
>
> I apologize in advance if this is a FAQ, but I didn't have the time to
> check all the details until now.
>
> Are legal papers required for installing the FreeBSD/amd64 patch I
> came up with a while ago too?
Legal stuff pretty much is required for everything with few
exceptions. While it is possible that in this case an exception might
apply, the next occasion where it won't is not far away if you intend
to contribute to Emacs. So better start getting the legal hassle over
with as soon as possible if your work situation does not prohibit it.
It is a nuisance, but not to be avoided.
--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Docstring line length
2005-12-21 21:44 ` Lennart Borgman
2005-12-22 5:46 ` Richard M. Stallman
@ 2005-12-22 20:43 ` Juri Linkov
2005-12-22 21:15 ` Lennart Borgman
1 sibling, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread
From: Juri Linkov @ 2005-12-22 20:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: rms, drew.adams, emacs-devel
> ! (defcustom apropos-label-face 'italic
> "*Face for label (`Command', `Variable' ...) in Apropos output.
> A value of nil means don't use any special font for them, and also
> turns off mouse highlighting."
> --- 85,91 ----
> :group 'apropos
> :type 'face)
>
> ! (defcustom apropos-label-face '(:underline t :foreground "blue" :slant italic)
I think the right face to use here is `button':
(defcustom apropos-label-face 'button
--
Juri Linkov
http://www.jurta.org/emacs/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Docstring line length
2005-12-22 20:43 ` Docstring line length Juri Linkov
@ 2005-12-22 21:15 ` Lennart Borgman
2005-12-22 21:57 ` Juri Linkov
0 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread
From: Lennart Borgman @ 2005-12-22 21:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: rms, drew.adams, emacs-devel
Juri Linkov wrote:
>>! (defcustom apropos-label-face 'italic
>> "*Face for label (`Command', `Variable' ...) in Apropos output.
>> A value of nil means don't use any special font for them, and also
>> turns off mouse highlighting."
>>--- 85,91 ----
>> :group 'apropos
>> :type 'face)
>>
>>! (defcustom apropos-label-face '(:underline t :foreground "blue" :slant italic)
>>
>>
>
>I think the right face to use here is `button':
>
>(defcustom apropos-label-face 'button
>
>
This sounds good to me. However in that case I would propose that the
color of the button face is set to "blue". This would make the link more
easily recognized. Since this face is also used for help mode it would
have the same benefit there.
A note: Underlined blue is the most common way to tell something is a
link on a web page. On quite a lot of pages I have seen underlined black
text who are not links (this is in my opinion quite confusing and I do
not recommend it, but I have seen it).
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Docstring line length
2005-12-22 21:15 ` Lennart Borgman
@ 2005-12-22 21:57 ` Juri Linkov
2005-12-22 22:27 ` link appearance (again) (was: RE: Docstring line length) Drew Adams
0 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread
From: Juri Linkov @ 2005-12-22 21:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: rms, drew.adams, emacs-devel
>>I think the right face to use here is `button':
>>
>>(defcustom apropos-label-face 'button
>>
> This sounds good to me. However in that case I would propose that the
> color of the button face is set to "blue". This would make the link more
> easily recognized. Since this face is also used for help mode it would
> have the same benefit there.
>
> A note: Underlined blue is the most common way to tell something is a link
> on a web page. On quite a lot of pages I have seen underlined black text
> who are not links (this is in my opinion quite confusing and I do not
> recommend it, but I have seen it).
I agree. I see no reason for Help links to have a different appearance
than Info links and Web links.
--
Juri Linkov
http://www.jurta.org/emacs/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* link appearance (again) (was: RE: Docstring line length)
2005-12-22 21:57 ` Juri Linkov
@ 2005-12-22 22:27 ` Drew Adams
0 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2005-12-22 22:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
> A note: Underlined blue is the most common way to tell
> something is a link
> on a web page. On quite a lot of pages I have seen underlined
> black text
> who are not links (this is in my opinion quite confusing and I do not
> recommend it, but I have seen it).
I agree. I see no reason for Help links to have a different appearance
than Info links and Web links.
We've been through this before..., but add my vote (again) for underlined
blue foreground, for links - as is the case now in Info. Links are not the
same as buttons (even if we use a `button' face to implement them).
I would make an exception in buffers that are link-dense - that is,
essentially tables or lists of links. Such buffers include Dired, Buffer
List, Occur, and compilation (e.g. grep). Almost everything in such a buffer
is a link (or it should be).
In such buffers, I would prefer to see the whole line be a link (although,
where appropriate, it could be divided into more than one link, with
different destinations). And I would propose _not_ using any face to
indicate such links. The mouse-face is enough to indicate a link, because
the mouse is nearly always over some link in a link-dense buffer. The
mouse-face should then be an underline (perhaps blue) - that is, it should
look like a link.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Docstring line length
2005-12-21 20:24 ` Drew Adams
2005-12-21 21:44 ` Lennart Borgman
@ 2005-12-22 5:47 ` Richard M. Stallman
1 sibling, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread
From: Richard M. Stallman @ 2005-12-22 5:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-devel
The following PList entries are longer than 80 chars (there are also plenty
of Function, Command, and Variable entries that are longer than 80 chars,
but the Plist entries, at least, could presumably be filled automatically):
It would be good to do that. Would someone like to?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Docstring line length
2005-12-21 0:54 ` Luc Teirlinck
2005-12-21 1:37 ` Drew Adams
@ 2005-12-21 3:12 ` Ken Raeburn
2005-12-21 18:51 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-21 4:54 ` Johan Bockgård
2 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread
From: Ken Raeburn @ 2005-12-21 3:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
On Dec 20, 2005, at 19:54, Luc Teirlinck wrote:
> Drew Adams wrote:
>
> I'm sure most people do not do as I do, but I'm not sure that
> most people
> use fixed 80-char frames. Do we have any user data to go on?
>
> 80 char frames are the default configuration of Emacs.
Yup, but I wonder how many people resize their windows to something
convenient to whatever they're working on, and ignore the 80-char
"standard". Especially with the popularity of variable-width fonts,
I'm not sure how important a column-count width standard is these
days. Certainly for code and RFCs and such it makes sense, but
what's the average user doing, and is she going to care about fixed-
width fonts and 80-column limits? I widen my Emacs window for some
things, and at least on my Mac, resizing doesn't tell me how many
columns wide it is, so when I go to put it back, I have no idea if
I'm back at 80 columns; so I probably use not-80-column widths more
than I realize....
It occurred to me recently to wonder, perhaps we should consider
making the doc strings a little more structured and their display
more intelligent: Explicit markers for line breaks and indented
sections, and wrapped paragraphs for the main descriptive text, using
whatever width (and font) the user has chosen for her window. (Of
course, that gets a bit more complicated if a help buffer is
displayed in two windows of different sizes.) Not *today*,
obviously, but somewhere down the line....
(No, I haven't thought much about how to actually accomplish it.)
Ken
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Docstring line length
2005-12-21 3:12 ` Ken Raeburn
@ 2005-12-21 18:51 ` Richard M. Stallman
0 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread
From: Richard M. Stallman @ 2005-12-21 18:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-devel
It occurred to me recently to wonder, perhaps we should consider
making the doc strings a little more structured and their display
more intelligent: Explicit markers for line breaks and indented
sections, and wrapped paragraphs for the main descriptive text, using
whatever width (and font) the user has chosen for her window.
Putting such a plan into effect would be a very large job. Since our
resources are limited, I am against this regardless of the details,
both now and after the release. We have lots of other work to do.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Docstring line length
2005-12-21 0:54 ` Luc Teirlinck
2005-12-21 1:37 ` Drew Adams
2005-12-21 3:12 ` Ken Raeburn
@ 2005-12-21 4:54 ` Johan Bockgård
2 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread
From: Johan Bockgård @ 2005-12-21 4:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
Luc Teirlinck <teirllm@dms.auburn.edu> writes:
> To me 70 for most subsequent lines with an absolute limit of 79
> seems better than the current 60. But I do not believe that this is
> a really big deal.
The default value of `emacs-lisp-docstring-fill-column' is 65, btw.
--
Johan Bockgård
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread