From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: scroll-conservatively default Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 23:13:47 +0100 Message-ID: <85wsrro4is.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <200712020048.lB20mS9R002812@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <200712032120.lB3LKwJ1003309@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <85odd4qdsx.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1196979233 542 80.91.229.12 (6 Dec 2007 22:13:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 22:13:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, sdl.web@gmail.com, miles@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 06 23:14:02 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1J0OyZ-0007cE-3Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 23:13:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0OyH-0003RP-Vv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:13:30 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J0OyD-0003PP-IV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:13:25 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J0OyD-0003Ov-0U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:13:25 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0OyC-0003Og-RZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:13:24 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J0OyB-0001dQ-QF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:13:24 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J0OyA-0003sy-MV; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:13:22 -0500 Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id A572D1C4CCE5; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 23:13:47 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 06 Dec 2007 23:14:00 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:84812 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: David Kastrup >> Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 12:10:22 +0100 >> Cc: Leo , emacs-devel@gnu.org >> >> Emacs' keybindings in connection with the scrolling behavior don't help >> (vi has extra keybindings C-e and C-y for scrolling without moving >> point). > > I'm not sure I understand what you mean, but if I do, you can, of > course, have this in Emacs. I have the following keybindings in my > .emacs since about forever: > > (global-set-key "\C-z" (function (lambda () (interactive) (scroll-up 1)))) > (global-set-key "\M-z" (function (lambda () (interactive) (scroll-down 1)))) > > (If you like to iconify Emacs, use C-x C-z instead of C-z that is taken > by the above.) Sure, I can have this in Emacs. So can you. But will a rank beginner pick suitable bindings and create interactive functions on his own? If we count my usage of --without-toolkit-scrollbars as one attempt of getting a fine-grained control over window-start, that is third report where the default keybindings and scroll behaviors are unproductive enough to actually cause people to code (or compile) around them. That is a road not apparent to the rank beginner. So perhaps if the majority is satisfied with the general scrolling behavior and just wants a separate window-start adjustment, we should think about a way to provide. Maybe a reasonable starting point would be to bind scroll-lock-mode by default to : there is not much point in a different default binding, is there? And currently it appears unbound. I am not saying that this will put the problem behind us, but it appears like it could help some people without causing any harm. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum