From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: find-library-name fails if file (with no extension) exists. Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 10:53:46 +0100 Message-ID: <85r6vvolhx.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <8764d8u085.fsf@pacem.orebokech.com> <85lkm4zbfa.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <854pssz8u7.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1164189334 18068 80.91.229.2 (22 Nov 2006 09:55:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 09:55:34 +0000 (UTC) Cc: lekktu@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 22 10:55:31 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GmopG-0005pY-7O for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 10:55:30 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GmopF-0002BF-QF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 04:55:29 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Gmonu-0001Nv-Ip for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 04:54:06 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Gmont-0001Mx-SA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 04:54:06 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gmont-0001Ms-DT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 04:54:05 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.164] (helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1Gmont-00049g-Gc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 04:54:05 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1Gmons-0005Ug-35; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 04:54:04 -0500 Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id F25EE1C22912; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 10:53:46 +0100 (CET) Original-To: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed\, 22 Nov 2006 06\:14\:40 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.90 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:62651 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: David Kastrup >> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 00:19:28 +0100 >> Cc: Emacs Devel >> >> > And plenty of successful operating systems have been >> > case-insensitive, so it is clearly not a bad idea, not unworkable, >> >> It is a constant source for trouble in scripts of all sorts. I guess >> about 20% of Windows installation problem reports with AUCTeX >> originate from capitalization mixups. > > Because programmers should be educated to refrain from Posix-centric > assumptions. That file names are strings is not Posix-centric. And that different strings imply different file names is certainly not Posix-centric either, unless the principle of least surprise is reserved to Posix. >> > nor particularly dangerous, difficult to implement, or hard on >> > the user. It's just another UI decision. One I like a lot. >> >> It is a constant trouble for programmers > > For uneducated programmers. For every programmer. It is just that some already know most of the moves and details customarily used to deal with that. But they still need to deal with it, and with varying degrees of complication depending on the application. > Those are the same programmers who think there's no distinction > between text and binary files (just yesterday saw a SHA1 signature > file on a prominent download site that failed to mark binary files > as needed, which made sha1sum very unhappy). Features that require "educated programmers" should offer reasonable value in exchange. The distinction between text and binary files has the advantage of being able to copy a text file unchanged to a line printer or terminal without the need for terminal settings or a formatting utility. And it has the disadvantage that files break under all sort of circumstances when transferred or processed. It is historic baggage from CP/M from times where C was not used for programming and there was no concept of a tty (and devices were not files, anyway). Of course, the situation is exacerbated by Macintoshs where the "put the whole line printer CRLF sequence in the file" idea was avoided but they chose to go with a different line ending character than Unix/C. I seem to remember that with Darwin, they switched the defaults, but the inheritage is there to stay pretty much for eternity (for example, within EPS files created on Mac and NeXT). Avoiding complications in design is not just a question of accommodating "uneducated programmers". -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum